The truth vs. natural remedies

[Gem]

Hi

My confrontational title is intended to get a raise, because it is time to raise hell against quackery when it comes to the well-being of human beings.


If you see a thread on this section, one person will ask about a remedy for some sort of malady, then others will suggest this thing and that thing until a dozen different herbs and supplements are listed, and none of them provide any evidence for the claim. Anyone can say anything and it really doesn't matter if it's true or if it works or if cause of the malady should be addressed naturally in terms of nutrition, better sleep patterns, alterations to social situations or what have you. Indeed it is more likely that the cause is something that can't be rectified by magic herbs that if run in trials would not produce an effect beyond the placebo effect.

If someone suggests a magic herb, ask them to direct you to the evidence. Ask them to explain the biological processes it effects. Ask them to prove it in one way or another. Hold them accountable for their suggestion.


If you'd like to talk about maladies in terms of your broader life situation then I welcome the natural remedies that actually apply. For example, if your nutrition is not balanced first, there is no point trying to fix that with supplements, let alone snake oil.


The truth is, a large percentage of natural so-called remedies in the form of herbs and supplements will have no beneficial effect, and some will have negative effects. Granted a few will have beneficial effects, but the risk to reward ration here is poor.

[inavalan]

Definitely there are natural remedies that work, as there are medicines that work.

We can't blindly trust whatever somebody claims, neither a medical doctor, nor a naturopat, nor a post on a forum.

You may have had some unsatisfactory experience with naturopatic advice that led to your beliefs, or you may trust the information peddled by pharmaceutic companies. Anyway I disagree in some degree with several of your statements in your opening post.

Again, people shouldn't blindly believe what anybody tells them, and shouldn't complain if they did.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Definitely there are natural remedies that work, as there are medicines that work.

We can't blindly trust whatever somebody claims, neither a medical doctor, nor a naturopat, nor a post on a forum.

You may have had some unsatisfactory experience with naturopatic advice that led to your beliefs, or you may trust the information peddled by pharmaceutic companies. Anyway I disagree in some degree with several of your statements in your opening post.

Again, people shouldn't blindly believe what anybody tells them, and shouldn't complain if they did.

Firstly, medicine undergoes trials and the side effects are well documented, so people take medicine on a risk vs. reward basis. 'Natural' remedies, on the other hand, are rarely subjected to trials and any side effects they might have are underplayed, not mentioned, and/or completely unknown. However, since the majority of them are ineffectual in any regard, they probably don't have side effects, either.


Medicines tend to do what is claimed, including the side effects, with relatively rare exceptions.



Of course natropathic advice is unsatisfactory because the claims are mostly hearsay, and since they provide little to no reliable evidence, I have never taken any naturopathic advice. Then again, I rarely suffer maladies and have no next to no use for medicine of any kind.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Gem

Firstly, medicine undergoes trials and the side effects are well documented, so people take medicine on a risk vs. reward basis. 'Natural' remedies, on the other hand, are rarely subjected to trials and any side effects they might have are underplayed, not mentioned, and/or completely unknown. However, since the majority of them are ineffectual in any regard, they probably don't have side effects, either.


Medicines tend to do what is claimed, including the side effects, with relatively rare exceptions.



Of course natropathic advice is unsatisfactory because the claims are mostly hearsay, and since they provide little to no reliable evidence, I have never taken any naturopathic advice. Then again, I rarely suffer maladies and have no next to no use for medicine of any kind.

You spread misinformation. I won't legitimize your assertions arguing with you.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by inavalan

You spread misinformation. I won't legitimize your assertions arguing with you.

I didn't think I provided any information. Merely made generalisations that are easy to verify. For example you can look up any medicine at an online medical site and be informed of its effects and side effects, but that merely directs you to information.

I also know bulk of natural remedies in the form of supplements, detox kits, herbal remedies are quackery. I'm in the fitness industry, which is filled with misinformation and bogus supplements, and if you show one health supplement which is effective, I can show you 10 that are snake oil.

[codrin13]

Medicines tend to do what is claimed, including the side effects, with relatively rare exceptions.

[Altair]

I think for minor issues and plenty of psychological issues many ''alternative'' practices can be rather beneficial, but for more serious issues it is nearly always more helpful and wise to go and see a doctor. I never quite understand the rather biased aversion that alternative people may have when it comes to science and established fact. It's great if an alternative works, but it's not a reason to abandon all reason and knowledge.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Altair

I think for minor issues and plenty of psychological issues many ''alternative'' practices can be rather beneficial, but for more serious issues it is nearly always more helpful and wise to go and see a doctor. I never quite understand the rather biased aversion that alternative people may have when it comes to science and established fact. It's great if an alternative works, but it's not a reason to abandon all reason and knowledge.

Actually that isn't the case ... The pharmaceutic companies lobby, the government and the public, against alternative medicine because they lose some market share. (if interested, you can read dr. Mercola's article: "How Media Watchdogs Became Industry Lapdogs").

It's a pity how we all look at the same data and draw diametrically opposed conclusions.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Actually that isn't the case ... The pharmaceutic companies lobby, the government and the public, against alternative medicine because they lose some market share. (if interested, you can read dr. Mercola's article: "How Media Watchdogs Became Industry Lapdogs").

It's a pity how we all look at the same data and draw diametrically opposed conclusions.

It seems Mercola is a diet guru of the ketogenic ilk, and has a vested interest in the supplements market, which is basically a conflict of interest because a well rounded diet minimises the need for supplements. His website markets supplements heavily and includes a keto detox kit. I suspect Mercola is a magic diet guy, and if you add his supplements to it the spell works.


He also knows it and is emphatic about it. One one hand, Mercola pushes the keto diet, and on the other, he says going on keto long term is not a good idea and after a certain point it will take your health backwards!!! He's discombobulated and has no standing on long-term nutrition, but by promoting a diet that is ultimately unhealthy is great for supplement sales. That's a huge fail from a professional nutritional standpoint.


For these reason, and more, I don't regard Mercola's narrative valid.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Actually that isn't the case ... The pharmaceutic companies lobby, the government and the public, against alternative medicine because they lose some market share.

I very much doubt that, and alternative practices can be scams, and worse, sometimes they can be potentially life threatening. Some people may think alternative medicine can cure early stage skin cancer for instance but it's a really dangerous attitude.

I know you're a big fan of ''thoughts create the reality'', Inavalan, but when it really comes down to it people can't just create the reality they want by thinking very hard about it. If all the deeply pious people could do that a much larger percentage of Medieval people would probably have survived the plague outbreaks. Many people back then truly believed in God and had strong faith. Today this percentage is lower and yet we can cure more diseases than we could back then. In other words: Science and reason are more important to human health than faith and beliefs.

Alternative healing works for minor issues, like mild depressions, and 'having the blues', and some pains also [I've witnessed alternative healers do this].
But it already gets much more difficult with something like a headache. I'm someone who suffers from migraines and it doesn't matter how much I ''think it away''.