proof of Gods existence

[Jyotir]

Hi Pleroo,

Originally Posted by Pleroo

Actually, I reread your first post and it was pretty clear. I'm not sure why I was having trouble comprehending it the other day.

Originally Posted by Pleroo

...if I inadvertantly offended anyone by the sloppy way I expressed myself, I sincerely apologize.

Not a problem. From your half dozen or so posts, you seem pretty clear-minded to me, both in insight and expression. Also, I haven't seen anything in your posts that would qualify as offensive in any way, so no need for any apology from my pov.

Originally Posted by Pleroo

…whatever other definition of God is true, in my mind, experiencing connection with God only matters if, at the core, God is love. That is the only definition, then, that I hold tightly to and the proof I'm looking for would be anything that is congruent with that.

In that case, how about:

Have you ever felt a spontaneous profound gratitude for your existence - the blessing and opportunity and joy and wonder of it?
That in my view would be a dynamic congruency of Love both through God’s Compassion and your reciprocal gratitude. In the end, it’s all a giving and receiving of One Being = God AS love, in height and depth, through One and Many, as Transcendent and individual.

What do you think?

~ J

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Pleroo,


Not a problem. From your half dozen or so posts, you seem pretty clear-minded to me, both in insight and expression. Also, I haven't seen anything in your posts that would qualify as offensive in any way, so no need for any apology from my pov.


In that case, how about:

Have you ever felt a spontaneous profound gratitude for your existence - the blessing and opportunity and joy and wonder of it?
That in my view would be a dynamic congruency of Love both through God’s Compassion and your reciprocal gratitude. In the end, it’s all a giving and receiving of One Being = God AS love, in height and depth, through One and Many, as Transcendent and individual.

What do you think?

~ J

Thank you jyotir.

Yes, the pragmatic part of me agrees with you wholeheartedly. It seems reasonable to me that a God who is love is obviously going to be connected with in manifestations OF love: actively (not necessarily emotionally, although that too) loving and being in relationship with others. My problem is that I have a lot of fear about relating to people outside of my small trusted circle, and I feel like I need to connect directly with the God who is love in order to overcome that. I guess that is why I have such a strong desire for God to be real.

So, what you said is good. Purposefully cultivating a grateful attitude is important and I really appreciate the way you framed it in terms of a love exchange -- a relationship -- with God. Its just that I need to get out of my own head because in those moments of gratitude I'm constantly questioning if there is Someone actually receiving my gratitude and that definitely kills it for me.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Gemcrusader

In that light i think this site should do itself a favour and remove the religion section. People who hold on to religion and give themselve an identity trough it limit and restrict themselves to the power of God/source whatever u wanna call it. In a way its evil/ dark force and restricts others to grow cause of its limitations and self restrictions.

Yes that can be true, but people need to find this out for themselves, I once believed in what they believe, but it took some time to realize that it wasn't the truth, and maybe its the same with you ?.

[Eskay]

As there is for everything in life, there is two sides of one thing. This goes for God also, you have the personal aspect of God and the "energy source" which everything comes from including our personal aspect of God.

There is proof of our personal God though! It too breaks down to two sides but is one also, which is the physical and spiritual/mental which make us up.

Originally Posted by Pleroo

Hi. New here, invited by the lovely Miss H, and this is my first post so if its not in the right sub forum, I apologize.

So my question is, do you think that desiring undeniable proof that a personal God exists is the surest way to NOT receive that proof? Just seems to me (as a sort of agnostic who thinks there are reasons to believe such a god exists, but in the absence of any certainty on the matter also thinks there is good reason not to), that if I am earnestly desiring to connect to god/source/whatever (which I am) my mind might easily convince me that I have, even if I haven't. In other words, I don't trust myself not to subconsciously fabricate "proof". So I want to experience connection, but doubt I would trust it even if it happened. Blah.

How do you find a way to detach yourself from the desire for proof, enough so that you won't subconsciously manufacture experiences, without completely killing your motivation to even continue to try and to remain open to connecting?

Clear as mud?

I have not read the thread yet.

As long as you function all goes. I'd advice delaying validations.
Even the want for detach etc.

Well done on putting that to words btw :)

Two philosopher parents and their infant child were out for dinner. The parents were in a particularly "deep" mood for conversation, and when the dessert, a sweetly frosted caramel carrot cake, arrived, the parents began to debate whether the cake was real or not.

One parent contended the cake did not exist, because our seeing the cake is just our sense of sight, our tasting the cake was just our sense of taste. Ultimately, it all existed in the mind. The cake has no reality.

The other parent argued that the cake truly existed. It was real, because it behaved according to laws. If you ate the cake, it provided certain nutrients to your body. If you dropped the cake, it splattered on the ground in (rough) accordance with Newtonian physics.

The child, excited to see the fluffy white frosting on the scrumptious cake, but unable to converse (at least, beyond rudimentary toddler babble) dug into the cake with his hand, feeling the stickiness of the icing and the texture of the cake and stuffed it into his face, savoring the heavenly sweetness.

Although the adults had language (unlike their too-young-to-speak child) and education... and were able to very effectively argue (with sources) why their understanding of the cake "proved" that it did exist or didn't exist, who was it who had the best understanding of the cake itself?

-TaoSandwich

[Pleroo]

Eskat, zombie and Tao, thank you all. I'm sure I will revisit this thread often to reread and further digest everyones answers. Tao... Great story. :)

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

Religion is about control and social order, and has nothing to do with the universe and all its powers. Work on connecting with all there is. Know you are a part of the universe.

I agree with your thought Thunder Bow

[Lumpino]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

Religion is about control and social order, and has nothing to do with the universe and all its powers. Work on connecting with all there is. Know you are a part of the universe.

I agree, that religions could be about control.......... For this reason many different religions.
But the fact that people are inventing nonsense is not proof for the existence nor absence.
Interesting may be meditation about a name of a god or goddess, like it performing for example Bhaktijogis (see Ramakrishna and his vision of Kali), kabbalists (see Sefer Raziel hamalach), some mystic and others.

[Miss Hepburn]

Just found this thread!

See? Didn't I tell you there were great people here?!

So many different viewpoints !

It's late I will come back tomorrow.

Hey, did you happen to see this...I do love it...

"I love a story I heard many years ago at an ashram when someone stated
that they were simply exhausted
by their never ending quest for an experience of God.
The guru replied, "If you would just live your life in a way that demonstrates compassion
and kindness for others, particularly those less fortunate, then
you would never have to worry about looking for God...
God will come looking for you."