Problems falling asleep

Right, so instead of naturally falling asleep, having issues staying awake during Astral Projection, I instead have a problem falling asleep. I am able to fall asleep only after about 2 - 4 hours of allowing my mind to be bombarded by thoughts. But it gets worse, I not only have this problem while attempting to Astral Project, but I'm starting to find it harder to sleep in general.

Somehow I have a feeling that all this might be connected with me having twitchy eyes after closing them. But then again there is a side of me that believes otherwise.

Well, I have tried to look in the dark for about 10 minutes before heading to sleep but it seems it doesn't help all that much. The twitching continues to persist even now as I am writing this, still attempting to fall asleep.

Or maybe it could be this bed. I have recently started to find this bed uncomfortable but still sleep-able.

Please let me know what you suggest, I'll try anything if I haven't tried it already. It almost feels like I'm becoming insomniac as this only gets worse every night.

The goal is not to stay awake but something else entirely. I used to think to myself that I will get enough sleep then wake myself up. What happened? I woke up. Then I changed my intent to wake up with my body still asleep. What happened? Sleep paralysis.

The only times I have had an out of body experience is when I have had the intent to first get enough sleep and then allowed it to happen by itself.

You might find this trick useful:

An Hour of Wakefulness Before Morning Naps Makes Lucidity More Likely
By Stephen LaBerge, Leslie Phillips, & Lynne Levitan

Article: http://www.lucidity.com/NL63.RU.Naps.html

[Xan]

Milan... The goal is to let the body relax into the sleep state while remaining conscious.

William Buhlman, a popular teacher of astral projection, suggests to repeat again and again as an affirmation "Body asleep, Mind awake".


Xan

Originally Posted by Xan

Milan... The goal is to let the body relax into the sleep state while remaining conscious.

William Buhlman, a popular teacher of astral projection, suggests to repeat again and again as an affirmation "Body asleep, Mind awake".


Xan

Xan, I understand this completely, but (correct me if I'm wrong) you are meant to 'nearly' fall asleep to some extent, right? As in a way of relaxing the mind but yet keeping it awake... I don't know... or maybe it's just because I'm not relaxed enough. Which on the contrary, brings me to believe that I may have not managed to induce the state of deep relaxation yet, at least, I don't think.

I have heard binaraul beats help greatly with achieving deep relaxation, and my brother has tried this before. It was working wonderfully for him. For me, however, I find it difficult to fall asleep lately in general -- as I have said in my OP.

Tonight, as I am not willing to stay awake for hours (only had about 5 hour sleep last night), I will try Astral Projection through lucid dreams. No success with lucid dreams yet, but I'm feeling that I'm actually 'getting somewhere' with lucid dreams.

Originally Posted by Tindra

The goal is not to stay awake but something else entirely. I used to think to myself that I will get enough sleep then wake myself up. What happened? I woke up. Then I changed my intent to wake up with my body still asleep. What happened? Sleep paralysis.

The only times I have had an out of body experience is when I have had the intent to first get enough sleep and then allowed it to happen by itself.

You might find this trick useful:

An Hour of Wakefulness Before Morning Naps Makes Lucidity More Likely
By Stephen LaBerge, Leslie Phillips, & Lynne Levitan

Article: NOT ENOUGH POSTS TO ALLOW POSTING OF URLS

Tindra, thanks. I've only ignored the precautions suggesting not to try Astral Projection late at night because I'm quite confident that I won't fall asleep. I'll try it sometime, I mean, what do I have to lose anyway?

I believe that using something other than the concept of being "awake" might be more productive. I struggled a lot with sleep problems, just like you Milan, when I intended to stay awake. My subconscious mind is very helpful, but it takes what I want and think literally. As in, "This part of my mind wants to stay awake. Well, how do I perceive being awake. Oh, I get it! There I go." Maybe "being lucid" or perhaps "paying attention" would be a way around this, or how about, "body asleep, mind aware"? Or, remain conscious, like Xan wrote, that's a good one too.

I have read a little bit about brainwaves and states of consciousness. These experiences, OBEs and APs, do not exactly fit what I would call awake so even though my mind is aware of what is going on there is a difference. Charles Tart wrote about it in a paper called, Six Studies of Out-of-the-Body Experiences:

"...full OBEs occurred in an EEG stage of what I would call poorly developed stage 1 EEG, mixed with transitory periods of brief wakefulness. Stage 1 EEG normally accompanies the descent into sleep, the hypnagogic period, and later dreaming during the night, but these were not like those ordinary stage 1 periods because they were often dominated by alphoid activity, a distinctly slower version of the ordinary waking alpha rhythm, and there were no rapid eye movements (REMs) accompanying these stage 1 periods, as almost always happens in normal dreaming. I had studied many records of sleep EEG records by then and can say the above with confidence. As to what this poorly developed stage 1 with dominant alphoid and no REMs means…..that is something of a mystery." (Journal of Near Death Studies, as of March 30, 1997).

As far as I can gather, that brainwave state can be reached either from being awake and falling toward sleep, or vice versa from sleep toward becoming awake. The trick is just to prolong that intermediate borderline state. That is what the hypnosis, and the tapes, and the sleep timer and whatever people have tried is all about, to get that state and to prolong it. Neighbors that slam doors and make noises at random works just as well.

I have no idea how other people interpret entry into that state, but for me, a good simile would be a computer being rebooted. If I am on the way to go to sleep, I blank out for a moment, and then while moving back up into consciousness again, something happens. It is as if my brain starts up a different operating system all of a sudden during the boot sequence. So, for me at least, it is not a smooth movement into this separate state of consciousness. I usually dip into unconsciousness first before "it" happens. So, you can get to that same state from sleep too and you don't even have to be in a dreaming state to get back to it. I think we all pass through it every time we move from awake to sleep and back again.

Another thing to note is that it is not absolutely necessary for the body to be asleep to have an OBE. When I had my first such experience I was awake and my body was awake too. I could move my hand over my closed eyelids and could still perceive the room from a different perspective floating above the body, while at the same time I standing and perceiving from yet another location. So, it can be done and "body asleep" is not a requirement.

Just to add a remark about that article I linked, they call it lucid dreaming, but the same thing applies to OBEs. Nick Newport (lucidology.com) provided that same suggestion in his free material to do all such meditation in the morning instead because it tends to be more productive. He has a few helpful pointers in his videos. (Search lucidology on youtube). One benefit to having such experiences while the sun is up, to me anyway, is that the whole experience is less overwhelming. I am no longer scared of the dark but sunlight does makes a difference in how I perceive my surroundings.

One method to "get out" is to ask for someone to help you out, to ask for an astral guide. I have tried that a few times, and I must have been perceived to be extremely ungrateful, because as soon as someone started lifting, pulling, and dragging, I changed my mind. If you are more brave than I am, that might be an option to speed things along.

- There are smartphone applications and gadgets that measures EEG so that people can learn how to hit that sweet spot faster: http://medgadget.com/2011/01/xwave_e...one ipad.html.

[Xan]

Milan... Actually your body does go to sleep according to relaxation and brain waves, while your mind remains alert. Thinking you shouldn't relax enough to go to sleep could be in your way.

You might find learning more about ap helpful. Reading good books with useful methods and with inspiring stories helps prepare our minds for it. I often suggest "The Secret of the Soul" by William Buhlman.

And this: Relaxation Is Key - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=c96249#post96249


Xan

Hmm... well firstly, let me start out by saying that something extraordinary happened last night. I-- perhaps it's better if I just paste it all down from my dream journal:

"I was in a strange sort of restaurant, and with me was a famous person who seemed to be preparing meals for tomorrow. I wasn't sure what tomorrow was, but I was way too tired to think about anything and I went straight to bed. So as I was falling asleep, I would find myself lying slightly on a chair near a computer each time. Then I would suddenly see a DOS screen with my eyes closed which tells me the status of my body; asleep or awake. When it is awake, it would print something like "You are awake!", and when I'm asleep, it randomly generates strange messages such as "Your body's asleep, ASTRAL PROJECT NOW!" or just simply "Body asleep." And just below these asleep messages, I would get a true and false question, asking me if I would like to leave my body.

I moved my hand just a little, enough for me to be able to write 'true'. Then suddenly, all this text popped up. I wasn't sure what they said, I haven't read them but with the help of my famous person buddy, I somehow find him talking through the DOS, telling me what to write. He would help me with the process as I was to write down some specific commands to be able to project.

After writing a decent amount of commands, there was one that especially caught my eye. "Redirecting..." It says... as I am patiently waiting, body still and paralyzed. "Done! Enjoy your travels!" I was excited when it said that, but not too excited that it would wake me up. Then it suddenly struck me. My entire body vibrated, the buzzing noise was extremely loud, everything was so intense as I started floating right up from my chair. With my eyes still somewhat closed, I could see my distorted and out of place room vibrating along with my body. I felt so light and I was already out of my body but I was still able to feel the vibrations as it starts to slowly fade away. And just then, right at that moment, I was awoken by my brother who had just left the room (nooooooo)."

This leaves me with a question; What would have happened if I prolonged this experience? I mean, I was almost completely unaware that I was actually sleeping but I knew what I had to do and how to do it. Wandering in Astral unaware is just not my thing.

Anyway, as I woke up, I went immediately to the forum to share my experience, but then I read your post, Tindra. And what I read about your computer reboot method made me surprised. It was a bit similar to my dream but maybe interpreted in a different way. Maybe it's just coincidental? So umm... I've tried asking my Spirit Guide to help me long ago, but I think I seem to be missing clues. They won't just instantly pull me out, unfortunately. And as for the app, it really looks amazing.

Xan - I'll try that tonight. I'll let you know how it goes. But let me just tell you, I haven't had much success with relaxation lately, I'm REALLY hoping this would help me.

Wow! Congratulations!

Perhaps the computer metaphor is a sign of the times and it sure is handy. I once saw a menu floating above the bed with the menu option "Exit Methods" and when I selected it a sub menu appeared and I selected "Roll out method" and immediately rolled out of my body as a result. Usually the text on the screen makes no sense whatsoever, ("User #some ID number has been deleted" ).

Your experience is fascinating, and I am sure you will learn more about how to use that display screen to access information, if you decide to do so. I have a blog thread on another forum where I have written about various experiences, including those mentioned above in detail, and can send you a link by PM if you like.

Just out of curiosity, did this restaurant have checkered floors (black and white squares, like a chessboard)? Was it located by an ocean?

Yep, I believe it may have been a black and white checkered floor but I cannot say that it was located anywhere near the ocean. I haven't been outside of the restaurant. But I have a feeling it may be... why do you say so?

It's just that I wasn't really lucid, I don't know if this will ever happen again unless I induce the lucidity myself, which is what I am trying to do now by checking my hands every now and then so that I may make that computer again when I dream.

Oh and of course, I would love to hear about your experiences!

[Xan]

This leaves me with a question; What would have happened if I prolonged this experience?

Well Milan... It seems you've made a beginning, so perhaps soon you'll be able to find out what happens next.


Wandering in Astral unaware is just not my thing.

This is where selecting a target point ahead of time is a good idea. It could be a familiar spot in your home to begin with, such as a doorway or place where you often sit... until you get more familiar not only with going out, but also going somewhere or into some chosen adventure or experience.


By the way... Learning to relax deeply takes a little time and practice, so be sure to give it more than one try.


Xan