God did not quite say his name was I AM.

[jonesboy]

From the KULARNAVA TANTRA



Difficult to obtain is the Guru who pleased,

gifts to you in the fraction of a second, the

wealth of liberation, taking you across the ocean

of Samsara.

Difficult to obtain is the godly Guru who

gives to the disciple his own capacity in a

moment without any ceremony or effort; who

gives instruction in knowledge which instantly

promotes faith, is easy and gives happiness of

the Self.

He is the Guru who goes on giving knowledge

with facility, without strenuous practice

and the like, as one moves from island to island.

Difficult to obtain is the Guru whose mere

instruction gives rise to knowledge, even as food

gives instant contentment to the hungry.

Many are the Gurus like lamps in house and

house; but rare is the Guru who lights up all

like the sun.

Many are the Gurus who are proficient to the

utmost in Vedas, and Sastras; but rare is the

Guru who has attained to the supreme Truth.

Many are the Gurus on earth who give what

is other than the Self; but rare is the Guru in

the worlds who brings to light the Atman.

Many are the Gurus who know petty

mantras, medicaments; but rare is the Guru

who knows the Mantras handed down by the

Nigama, Agama and Sastra.

Many are the Gurus who rob the disciple of

his wealth; but rare is the Guru who removes

the afflictions of the disciple.

Many are they who are given to the discipline

and conduct according to varna (class),

asrama (stage) and kula (family); but he who is

devoid of all volition is the Guru rare to find.

He is the Guru by whose very contact there

flows the supreme Ananda; the intelligent

man shall choose such a one as the Guru and

no other.

By the mere sight of him whose intelligence

is active only till the advent of experience, one

attains liberation, there is no doubt of it.

Rare is the Guru who has eaten up Doubt

which has engulfed the three worlds with all

that is moving and unmoving.

As in the vicinity of fire the butter gets

melted, so in the proximity of the holy Guru all

sin dissolves

As lighted fire burns up all fuel - dry and

moist - so the glance of the Guru burns up in a

moment the sin of the disciple.

As a heap of cotton blown up by a great

storm scatters in all the ten directions, so the

heap of sins is driven away by the compassion

of the Guru.

As darkness is destroyed at the very sight of

the lamps, so is ignorance destroyed at the very

sight of the holy Guru.

[sky]

[quote=django]

Originally Posted by sky123

You have experienced these 5 points? All at the the same time?

I've not come across descriptions like these in other teachings, and I haven't been able to find anything on google, maybe I'm putting in the wrong key words. I really would appreciate a lead in this search.

You don't have to experience all of your five point's at the same time, you just accept what comes

If I come across descriptions in other Religions/Beliefs I will keep the links for you.

The Transfiguration of Buddha on the mount is interesting.


"It is said that towards the end of his life Buddha was transfigured on Mount Pandava, in Ceylon. Suddenly a flame of light descended upon him, and encircled the crown of his head with a circle of light. His body became 'glorious as a bright, golden image,' and shone as the brightness of the Sun and moon"

Similar story, different persons.

[django]

[quote=sky123]

Originally Posted by django

You don't have to experience all of your five point's at the same time, you just accept what comes

If I come across descriptions in other Religions/Beliefs I will keep the links for you.

The Transfiguration of Buddha on the mount is interesting.


"It is said that towards the end of his life Buddha was transfigured on Mount Pandava, in Ceylon. Suddenly a flame of light descended upon him, and encircled the crown of his head with a circle of light. His body became 'glorious as a bright, golden image,' and shone as the brightness of the Sun and moon"

Similar story, different persons.

I did a word search of 'transfiguration' and 'radiance' in the book The Life of Gotama the Buddha: Compiled exclusively from the Pali Canon by E.H. Brewster and couldn't find any reference to a transfiguration in Ceylon, can you find some mention of it in some other sutra?

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Are you saying that unless you can experience all 5, be guaranteed all 5 you would decline?

Instead of being open you would set conditions first?

You did say that a transmission like Seraphims was common, so why not ask for a guarantee of all 5?

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

From the KULARNAVA TANTRA



Difficult to obtain is the Guru who pleased,

gifts to you in the fraction of a second, the

wealth of liberation, taking you across the ocean

of Samsara.

Difficult to obtain is the godly Guru who

gives to the disciple his own capacity in a

moment without any ceremony or effort; who

gives instruction in knowledge which instantly

promotes faith, is easy and gives happiness of

the Self.

He is the Guru who goes on giving knowledge

with facility, without strenuous practice

and the like, as one moves from island to island.

Difficult to obtain is the Guru whose mere

instruction gives rise to knowledge, even as food

gives instant contentment to the hungry.

Many are the Gurus like lamps in house and

house; but rare is the Guru who lights up all

like the sun.

Many are the Gurus who are proficient to the

utmost in Vedas, and Sastras; but rare is the

Guru who has attained to the supreme Truth.

Many are the Gurus on earth who give what

is other than the Self; but rare is the Guru in

the worlds who brings to light the Atman.

Many are the Gurus who know petty

mantras, medicaments; but rare is the Guru

who knows the Mantras handed down by the

Nigama, Agama and Sastra.

Many are the Gurus who rob the disciple of

his wealth; but rare is the Guru who removes

the afflictions of the disciple.

Many are they who are given to the discipline

and conduct according to varna (class),

asrama (stage) and kula (family); but he who is

devoid of all volition is the Guru rare to find.

He is the Guru by whose very contact there

flows the supreme Ananda; the intelligent

man shall choose such a one as the Guru and

no other.

By the mere sight of him whose intelligence

is active only till the advent of experience, one

attains liberation, there is no doubt of it.

Rare is the Guru who has eaten up Doubt

which has engulfed the three worlds with all

that is moving and unmoving.

As in the vicinity of fire the butter gets

melted, so in the proximity of the holy Guru all

sin dissolves

As lighted fire burns up all fuel - dry and

moist - so the glance of the Guru burns up in a

moment the sin of the disciple.

As a heap of cotton blown up by a great

storm scatters in all the ten directions, so the

heap of sins is driven away by the compassion

of the Guru.

As darkness is destroyed at the very sight of

the lamps, so is ignorance destroyed at the very

sight of the holy Guru.

This says Many are the Gurus like lamps in house and

house; but rare is the Guru who lights up all

like the sun.

Rare, not common, difficult to obtain. And your quote seems to celebrate the rare guru, and not promote the common guru as satisfactory.

[django]

@Sky, I did find this historical research of the Buddha in Sri Lanka (Ceylon), there seems to be some dispute about whether Buddha even went to Ceylon, and this link asserts he did visit there 3 times, and was supposed to have left a footprint one of these times, but there was no record of a transfiguration. I suspect the transfiguration story might be just a folktale.
http://infolanka.com/org/srilanka/religion/4.htm

[sky]

Originally Posted by django

@Sky, I did find this historical research of the Buddha in Sri Lanka (Ceylon), there seems to be some dispute about whether Buddha even went to Ceylon, and this link asserts he did visit there 3 times, and was supposed to have left a footprint one of these times, but there was no record of a transfiguration. I suspect the transfiguration story might be just a folktale.
http://infolanka.com/org/srilanka/religion/4.htm

suspect the transfiguration story might be just a folktale.



" I suspect the transfiguration story might be just a folktale. "


It could be.and the transfiguration of Christ is taken from the same " Folktale " as a lot of biblical stories are similar to pre-christian ones.

It isn't really that important to me, once you have personal experiences yourself the experiences of others are just theirs and everyone explains them in their own words.

Ramalinga Swamigal is a Tamil Hindu Saint who is also reported in Scriptures to have Transfigured, who knows.

Buddha is also reported to have Transfigured during his Enlightenment, Tibetan Buddhists Schools refer to Rainbow Bodies, Tantric Buddhism is full of Transfiguration / Miracles etc: It's up to each individual to believe or not if they really happened or if they are ' Fairytales '

I think if Teachings of any sort enhance your life and the life of others then use them and leave the rest behind for others to use.

[sky]

[quote=django]

Originally Posted by sky123

I did a word search of 'transfiguration' and 'radiance' in the book The Life of Gotama the Buddha: Compiled exclusively from the Pali Canon by E.H. Brewster and couldn't find any reference to a transfiguration in Ceylon, can you find some mention of it in some other sutra?

Maha-parinibbana Sutta.

47. And soon after Pukkusa of the Malla clan had departed, the Venerable Ananda arranged the set of golden-hued robes, burnished and ready for wear, about the body of the Blessed One. But when the set of robes was arranged upon the body of the Blessed One, it became as though faded, and its splendor dimmed.

48. And the Venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One: "Marvellous it is, O Lord, most wonderful indeed it is, how clear and radiant the skin of the Tathagata appears! This set of golden-hued robes, burnished and ready for wear, Lord, now that it is arranged upon the body of the Blessed One seems to have become faded, its splendor dimmed."

49. "It is so, Ananda. There are two occasions, Ananda, when the skin of the Tathagata appears exceedingly clear and radiant. Which are these two? The night, Ananda, when the Tathagata becomes fully enlightened in unsurpassed, supreme Enlightenment, and the night when the Tathagata comes to his final passing away into the state of Nibbana in which no element of clinging remains. These, Ananda, are the two occasions on which the skin of the Tathagata appears exceedingly clear and radiant.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

You did say that a transmission like Seraphims was common, so why not ask for a guarantee of all 5?

I didn't say such a transmission is common, rare is the guru that can do such a thing.

It is more the person experiencing the transmission and what they will feel. How open are you, your already depth of being that will determine such experiences.

Faith, trust, being open with no expectations is impo.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

This says Many are the Gurus like lamps in house and

house; but rare is the Guru who lights up all

like the sun.

Rare, not common, difficult to obtain. And your quote seems to celebrate the rare guru, and not promote the common guru as satisfactory.

A common guru is all around you. Teaches you by books, by a system of practices.

Rare is the guru who by his being alone that can help you remove your issues and fears.

Surely it laid out the huge difference?