Zen, a practice without thinking??

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by CSEe

Yes I can easily agree with you sir , but current I am still full of pollutants , still in the middle of sorting thing out ......food , sex , love still very much happenings in my life ............is very-very hard for me Sir but undertstanding of Buudhism concept does helps.....
Thks
CSEe

Yes I understand, but remember that the so called pollutants can be fun, just like junk food, a little can be yummy, but too much can be no good for your tummy lol.

[Gem]

I don't think it matters... but let me elaborate.

A person may contain 'impurities' (though that is a vague term) and see things which can be improved... and really, people generally do want to be better every day. On one hand people want to better for the sake of thier own growth, and on the other hand, thier purification is of much benefit to all others.

Of course, families that love eachother are healthy families, so love each other more, not less.

Sex is also a wonderful part of life, and as people, our gender and sexuality is huge! The reason spiritual blimps condecend it comes with a great deal of passion, invokes very strong desires, and can cause people a lot of unrest if it gets out of hand.(pun not intended).

The body and mind has something to do with a person and responds to a person's intention... there are both controlled mechanizms and also uncontrolled reflexes. One can intentionally raise the arms up... but can't keep eyes open when they sneeze.

Eating food is survival, but again, a comfort eater can go way too far, and there are eating disorders that go to the extremes.

That's how it is, everyone sees that for themselves... things can be taken too far... and that upsets the inner equalibrium, causes distress and suffering.

The Buddhists reduce it to two catagories; Aversion and Desire... and because we are sensual beings, we have aversion to unpleasant perceptions and desire pleasurable ones... and the more extreme these become the more a person suffers, and I agree with that in principle.... but insight into it is more ... ummmm ... revealing.

Still... this doesn't means there are rules which dictate someones self realization... and in the end, a person is as they are now, and not an imaginary 'realized person' in the future.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Yes I understand, but remember that the so called pollutants can be fun, just like junk food, a little can be yummy, but too much can be no good for your tummy lol.

Yes indeed sir ..........thats my understanding but " the junk food" is not " junk" anymore it seems like 'organic foods"...............

Originally Posted by Gem

Sex is also a wonderful part of life, and as people, our gender and sexuality is huge! The reason spiritual blimps condecend it comes with a great deal of passion, invokes very strong desires, and can cause people a lot of unrest if it gets out of hand.(pun not intended).

I think you have it wrong as to why "spiritual blimps" have a low view of sex. It is simply a low, primitive energy - if you doubt this then see where it is in the chakra alignment, i.e. the root/base chakra.

(Incidentally I know that sex is a "wonderful part of life" for most people; but it's so not where I'm at and I rejoice in the liberation that celibacy brings. Not for most, I concede).

[Gem]

Originally Posted by amy green

I think you have it wrong as to why "spiritual blimps" have a low view of sex. It is simply a low, primitive energy - if you doubt this then see where it is in the chakra alignment, i.e. the root/base chakra.

(Incidentally I know that sex is a "wonderful part of life" for most people; but it's so not where I'm at and I rejoice in the liberation that celibacy brings. Not for most, I concede).

Sex is an expression of something, and people don't always express themselves nicely. Some make low and primative gestures and others express very deep trusts.

We do have a sexuality aspect to our nature, and each one is different in that regard... but it doesn't necessarily have to be expressed.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gem

The seeker who is wondering has something to express so wants to be heard. The one with the answers has little time to stop and listen you see. It's about priorities. The first priority is to listen, and hear... and people generally find a way if they have that outlet...

What we often see is a person who is vunerable is taken advantage of and coerced into believeing teachings. Religions thrive on it, and unfortunately, so do SF gurus.

I read the preceeding posts and I noted you were the one who expressed the valuable part of your experience, but it was swooped upon and then distorted into an 'answer'... and many can't see that the value actually came from you... because someone else used it to make themselves appear as the authority.

At least I for one know the value of your sharing... I know it is yours.

I came online today, to say goodbye. The reason was that it has become apparent to me that being listened to as you speak of above seems to be lacking here. It's all I ever asked for and maybe even something I need.
Last nights rounds between myself and a couple of others here, who just could not find it in themselves to listen and hear me and meet me there, without turning it against me or using it to preach a cause, left me feeling like enough is enough.
Your post above healed those wounds instantly.................thank you so much for listening Gem, restoring my faith in it being possible for others to listen.
The good news from all this is the 'need' to be listened to has become less thru all this.
Blessings to you my friend.

White Shaman - I'm glad that Gem's timely post has managed to keep you with us. Well saved Gem...your post had more significance here than you supposed!

I hope I am not one of those who does not listen to what you say. I always try and ensure I understand what is being said in a post, i.e. to understand where someone is coming from. I think this is the minimum that should be required here.

Thanks for giving us all another chance to keep you with us White Shaman!

Except for the first few posts, everything here is off topic.
This is about Zen Buddhism and how we relate to it.
Mainly about the practice of Zazen
Not a free for all discussion.

This opening post wasn't put up to spark discussion nor debate.
It was meant to inspire and provide introspection.
Now, I see why religion has always gone off in the wrong direction
It is the people and their incessant babble.

avisitor - I acknowledge that your thread has gone wildly off topic and apologise for my small part in this, albeit only joining in towards the last few pages.

Threads can frequently go off topic. Perhaps, being a newbie, you are not familiar with this. The way I see it, it is up to the thread originator to bring it back on track (if it hasn't occurred to anyone else to do so). We all have equal responsibility here. It was a good OP. Perhaps we can return to this topic now....would you like to start the ball rolling again? What do you feel now needs to be addressed here?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

I came online today, to say goodbye. The reason was that it has become apparent to me that being listened to as you speak of above seems to be lacking here. It's all I ever asked for and maybe even something I need.
Last nights rounds between myself and a couple of others here, who just could not find it in themselves to listen and hear me and meet me there, without turning it against me or using it to preach a cause, left me feeling like enough is enough.
Your post above healed those wounds instantly.................thank you so much for listening Gem, restoring my faith in it being possible for others to listen.
The good news from all this is the 'need' to be listened to has become less thru all this.
Blessings to you my friend.

Aw shucks... now I feel all mushy, ya big lug.