Zen, a practice without thinking??

[psychoslice]

Sorry Gem but i don't see what you see, all i see is people sharing their experiences, if someone connects with that experience, well that's great, if they don't, well move on and drop it, it wasn't meant for you....and Xan i agree with you, you have a big heart and so much love to give, that's what i see, that's what I experience from reading your postings, as i also do with Tzu.

[Xan]

Thank you, Robert... and I see you the same. In fact, I increasing see others popping up on the forum who are clearly speaking from this inner knowing.

As for making judgments against people and how they express themselves, Gem... well... what for? What does it serve?


Xan

[CSEe]

Just sharing . in my current opinion , each beings -human , animal ,plant , rock , wood , steel etc is in a process freeing from the polluted energy causing it existance , under-going a process of settling call " life" and this process to me is Buddhism .
As human , I am in same process of understanding , experiencing , discovering and accepting leading to freeing all my polluted energy such as desire , emotions , compassion , love , attachment on knowledge etc......
During this process , I am confused , greatly influence by my emotions , greatly attached to my own creation of " self" and due to my confusion , I see many choices presented to me . I see many choices to act , re-act or planing to act resulted from a confused mind . As this process continues , I will understand myself more and more , and with this the choices presented will be lesser and lesser ..........and until I reach to a point , I accept "myself" and free me from myself .........there will be no more desire , emotions , compassion etc and this condition in my current understanding is " enlightenment' , a state of "no self" , a condition of known ....and further to that I will ceased my own existance due to there is no more will , desire to exist .....I will be empty - " The Buddha" .
The whole process is known to me as Buddhism .
So back to our perception on " teacher" or " guru" in Buddhism .
In my current opinion , all being is " guru" to me regardless they are human like Dalai Lama or serial killer , or all animal , all plant , all livings regardless their sizes , background and all non-livings -chair , table , rock ,steel etc ........each beings just like me is in their journey to emptiness therefore from their action , re-actions , nature I could see myself , I could learn to understand myself therefore all being is "guru" in Buddhism........

Since my understanding Buddhism is all about accepting ownself , understanding ownself therefore is NOT possible for anyone to "teach" Buddhism to others even Siddharta himself .........simply because he will never know how much others accepting their ownselves compare to how much he accept his ownself ......since there is no way we could measure this awareness therefore Buddhism can only be learned from others but impossible to be taught even by Siddharta himself ...................
So we can regard anyone or anything as ' guru" but we cannot think or feel we are 'guru" to others even to a piece of rubbish ................
Thks my current understanding ....I have to repeat it as I need to further explained .
Thks
CSEe

[Xan]

I agree, CSE... The pollutant in the world is the human mind that lost awareness of who we really are... our essence of being... and has become distorted from that loss. In the process of regaining it, coming to accept ourselves and each other is a key element.

Anything we encounter may teach us / show us ourselves - the false and the true, when we are open to it.

As for teachers and gurus... I've gained so much from these good people in my process of awakening in the truth. Why resist such an opportunity when it comes along?


Xan

Originally Posted by Gem

I'll explain it.

Earlier White Shaman was irritated because SF Gurus were clubbing him over the head with their lofty truisms from above, and I was there. He was right, I saw that happening myself.

I thought it best that the members knew that I could see what it was, so that they didn't become isolated under a swarm of 'all knowing ones'... because they used to do the same thing to me, so I know what it's like.

It's all a big bag of tricks, man. Nasty business through and through, many can't see it , but I can, and I believe more and more people are starting to as well.

Gem - did you read Xan's post #141 (top of page 15) where she says she doesn't see herself as a guru and is just sharing her experiences? There may have been conflicts here but it did not involve guru status. As to "lofty truisms" - a truism can be seen as lofty...however, that is a perception/value judgement on it.

I understand you have some kind of resentment about receiving advice. (It's good that indeed you make it clear that you do not want advice, on one of your threads). However, it is natural to offer what we can to help others. It comes naturally for those who care...it's not about unequal relationships, one upmanship but about compassion.

Have you also missed that CSEe is benefiting from his interaction with Xan?

You are obviously deeply suspicious of gurus and feel they have a hidden agenda. No doubt you have your reasons to have concluded this...perhaps from your own past experience? What is this "big bag of tricks" and "nasty business" that you mention?
I would really like to know since I feel it is the bottom line with your constant gripe on this issue. Were you duped/unlucky enough to have had a dodgy guru? One bad apple?

However that may be, I think you are misguided in applying your take on gurus here. Your scepticism and cynicism just seem out of place on this thread. I, and others, just see mostly beneficial exchanges of posts here. Can you reread this thread without your guru glasses on I wonder...since there are no gurus here?

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by Xan

I agree, CSE... The pollutant in the world is the human mind that lost awareness of who we really are... our essence of being... and has become distorted from that loss. In the process of regaining it, coming to accept ourselves and each other is a key element.

Anything we encounter may teach us / show us ourselves - the false and the true, when we are open to it.

As for teachers and gurus... I've gained so much from these good people in my process of awakening in the truth. Why resist such an opportunity when it comes along?


Xan

No , one can never and should never choose what to learn or resist what should be learned ...........as I have mentioned I can accept anyone as Guru without checking their background but I should never feel I am guru even to a cat .......thats Buddhism to me currently .
Thks
CSEe

[Xan]

This seems apropos...

Central to Buddha's teaching is seeing the equality among humanity and the importance of equality of all sentient beings. Whether you are a Buddhist or not, this is something important to know and to understand.

Then you must also see the potential for developing a loving kind of patience, a tolerance founded on the basis of courage, not on the basis of pessimism. Tolerance and patience with courage are not signs of failure, but signs of victory.


Q. What can we do to help end suffering in the world? What can one individual do?

A. We must each lead a way of life with self-awareness and compassion, to do as much as we can. Then, whatever happens, we will have no regrets.

All want happiness and not suffering.... From beginningless time until now, we have brought ourselves into great difficulties through selfishness.... We have some intelligence and with that can understand the value of cherishing others and the faults of cherishing [only] ourselves.


- The Dalai Lama, excerpts from "The Spirit of Tibet: Universal Heritage"

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by Xan

This seems apropos...

Central to Buddha's teaching is seeing the equality among humanity and the importance of equality of all sentient beings. Whether you are a Buddhist or not, this is something important to know and to understand.

Then you must also see the potential for developing a loving kind of patience, a tolerance founded on the basis of courage, not on the basis of pessimism. Tolerance and patience with courage are not signs of failure, but signs of victory.


Q. What can we do to help end suffering in the world? What can one individual do?

A. We must each lead a way of life with self-awareness and compassion, to do as much as we can. Then, whatever happens, we will have no regrets.

All want happiness and not suffering.... From beginningless time until now, we have brought ourselves into great difficulties through selfishness.... We have some intelligence and with that can understand the value of cherishing others and the faults of cherishing [only] ourselves.


- The Dalai Lama, excerpts from "The Spirit of Tibet: Universal Heritage"

I can easily agree with the answer but find it hard to agree with the question ......in Buddhism of my current understanding , all our action is always for ourself never for others ...so there are nothing we can do to help others because we are actually avoiding our suffering by own regret IF we do not help others while we are in position and capable to do so.

in Buddhism nothing we can do to help others except only to avoid own regrets and no one could hurt us or cause suffering to us except our ownself ...
Thks
CSEe

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by CSEe

Well , I do not understand what snicky means but I do not feel that I am " nice".....just someone thinking of own death all the time .
Thks
CSEe

Sorry, I meant sneaky.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Sorry, I meant sneaky.

Thks
CSEe