Meat eating Christians?

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Well,I for one was going to let this thread go - because as said really,the bottom line in al matters of Divinity,surely has to be Yeshua THE CHRIST - I mean,it doesnt even get more Divine thn that,for HE IS the living Divine Presence...And despite what others here have tried to say,in the bible we see Him and Hisimmediate followers do ndeed freely eat all manner of meat,with no mention at al of any prohibitions placed by YESHUA - none at all - in fact He Himself,feeds the masses with FISH,so obviously then He has no worries about defiling themin any manner at all..

But anyway,some things been said that need addressing for the sake of context and clarity..Namely:

Knight; "In plain English, a number of the Pauline Epistles weren't even written by Paul and those that were were themselves corrupted."

Well Im sorry to point it out Folks - but actually that statement hold true for the entie New Testamant - for none of the canonised gospels even have an author that wishes to claim them first hand,and none of them could possibly have been written first hand by the disciples themselves - so in short then,ALL of the bible NT accounts are spurrious as it is termed,not trustworthy,and indeed,purposefully corrupted..Now then - what do you trust..?..See the contradictions - same book tells you meat is wrong - but same book tells you the main character Yeshua ATE MEAT FREELY !! Read the bible if you must,but it will only confound you all the more..

"With the very greatest respect does it not occur to you that the ultimate reason for all the abuse, cruelty and killing is people going round declaring mankind has carte blanche to do with the Animal Kingdom as he pleases. "

Well,also with due respect - same bible tells them that actually the god who created the world and mankind did indeed declare just that - we have DOMINION we are told,given FULL AUTHORITY over EVERY animal..

"In just the same way the slave traders used Bible verses condoning slavery - which also, needless to say, were spurious interpolations * because the Roman Empire ran on slavery and needed it to continue - to start and continue the slave trade."

But that is blatantly false..Fact is in the OLD testament long long before the romans ebter into this,the bible tells them straight to kill the males of fighting age,and take women and child as slaves..Nothing to do with roman cultrue,as indeed slavery was a world wide phenomena - you know - bondage in Egypt,Exodus etc etc..

But of course,none of that has even got anyhting to do with a matter of eating meat or not,and spiritual transcendance or betterment..For that aspect,there is only one Master,Yeshua who IS CHRIST - so lets just folow HIS example - tha being He freely ate meat,definately LAMB and definately FISH - and He even encouraged those around to consume meat as well..No issues at all for HIM then - and he should know as He IS the Living Divine Presence after all..Trust Him..

[knightofalbion]

So in other words, you're saying on the one hand the Bible has been corrupted, fabricated and interpolated throughout, yet on the other hand because it says this or that in the Bible it's 100% guaranteed to be true ...
That doesn't really add up does it.

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. The slave traders used the (fabricated) verses in the Bible condoning slavery to justify and continue the slave trade.
The words of Paul 'Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear" and again "Slaves obey your earthly masters in everything" and similar elsewhere in the NT. Which can only be construed, if true, as Divine approval of slavery.

As we've already covered, abstention from meat was the norm in early Christianity. As independent historians of the day confirm.
Jesus never ate meat from the day of his birth to the day of his death.

'All that matters' is Truth. Truth for truth's sake and not least because carnage inevitably follows in the wake of falsehood.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Knight; There are two very distinct parts to the bible - old and new testamant..Now,in regard to ANY ASPECT of truth - you can almost completly forget the NEW testamant..Sure,it relays a rough outline of yeshuas life,and so there is a base truth to the narrative - but the information and WISDOM it SHOULD convey,has been very carefully altered to suit a definate POLITICAL agenda..Indeed,the NEW testamant,is nothing much more,that a social/political manifesto,aimed soley at keeping an elite clerical heircahy,safe and secure in their power..It does this in two obvious ways,by ensuring the public masses,need to rely on them and only them,for any hope of spiritual wisdom,understanding of the truth of Dvinity and their future,and by telling them always that without this church aid,the people are lost and damned for eternity..It contains very very little actual spoken words by Christ,even though it is indeed,HIS STORY,and supposed to be HIS TEACHING - yet al the true wisdom is purposefuly ommitted..

The OLD TESTAMANT THOUGH - now THERE IS TRUTH,all the way through,there is Divine revealtion..There is no hypocrasy there between the two statements,no confusion or error..The god of the bible,we know as Jehovah,DID create the world around and mankind..He is OUR creator - but he is not the ORIGIN of creation itself,not the Father that Christ taught us of..

And neither is it an error to say that Christs narrative,even though He denounces this god jehovah,His narrative does indeed fit perfectly withn the Old Testamant..Yeshua IS the one prophecised about so many many times..He IS the direct manifestation of the Father - but it was NOT jehovah that sent Him or revealed Him..

I think to understand this,we need a little "Christian metaphysics" one on one - then we will see what Christ was all about,for always He is coming from this deeper realisation and awareness..To get a more comlete picture,we must go to Yeshua directly,see what He said when the disciples asked for clarity..He told them that same above - wrong deity,not the Father..He explains the source of creation,how and why it happens,literally metaphysical,fundamental knowldge of the creation process itself..He follows this with an intriccate description of the order of the heirachy of all the realms,saying in effect there are 360 major heavens,each ruled and controlled by Beings such as this god jehovah..We are one amongst many such realms..

Hence.jehovah and the genesis account,the old testamant,is as close to truth as we have records of,but remains yet the incomplete truth..For that fuller picture,we must run the OT account,especially predictions of Christ future appearance as it is metaphysically essential, - but include also,the account given directly by Yeshua to Judas,as He explains fully that metapysical wisdom,even why Judas must "betray" Hiim,and why He must allow them to murder Him..It was indeed,all known "before it happened",PROPHESISED inthe OLD ttestamant as it IS Divine truth,filtered down throughthis pre existant heirachy..For He was indeed,the DIRECT MANIFESTATION of the Father,fully omniscient of His task and purpose..

Add the two narratives together and it becomes very clear..See,Christ told them straight He came from the TRUE source of creation,and that their god jehovah,was in fact a demigod,a creature - Divine birthright,as we all are,He explained - but not the source itself..Having explained that source to Judas,and the heirachy of creation,it is important for us to realise two things if we are to know the truth of our predicamant that Christ came to rectify,SAVE us from..

Christ came here directly,for purely metaphysical reasons..Nothing to do with sin and repentance in the way the later religon would explain it..Nothing to do with damnation for eternity - but EVERYTHING to do with being SEPERATE entirely,from our true source..The Father first manifests a Divine Light,and this first emantion is literally the MOTHER of creation,for all things called forth,are formed FROM this Divine Light..Now,the Father KNOWS it is doing this,is fully aware of who and what this Light represents,and so,this Divine Light has MIND,is Sentient,and is known and named by Christ,as SOFIA..

She,Sofia,is the aspect of the Fathers Wisdom,deals with whole concepts for She is the mother of all things conceived of and known within the Fathers mind..She is the pure imagination that calls forth the virgin birth of all creation..Christ,her male counterpart,is the PROCESS,the WORD,the power to create form and structure,to hold the cohesive reality of different concepts,ideas,imaginings,and form the ONE REALITY that is the Father - the individualised,comlete Divine mind,fully present..Sofia calls forth creation,conceives of it - Christ shapes and forms it guides and moulds it to perfection..

To understand our true predicamant,we must understand the very start and the reson wht,later events would and did happen - the very reasons for our "fall" as the bible tels it - but explaied slightly differently,in much cleareer detail,directly by Yeshua the Christ..See metaphysics starts it all,and everything Yehsua speaks of,comes from this background that he takes for granted,the foundation of His being..

He tels us that Sofia ALONE,decides to attempt creation - and because Christ is not involved,this forms somehow mistakenly - He calls it misshapen and ugly - and it is not able to harmonise with the Fathers realm,becasue it is the Christ thats brings that perfectin..Without His discipline,the creaton remians imperfect..Sofia is so appalled by her results,that she HIDES her creature within another "lesser" realm and places a barrier there so none of the true Divine (for many Angels are likewise created as needed,each of the 360 primary Angels each calling forth a multitude of their own creation so there is according to Christ a vast and great universe that jehovah was unawaree of) - Sofia HIDES her creation from them all,creates a totally SPERERATE REALM,and places jehovah there..

Thats the second point we must fully grasp..In the heirachy of the total creation,we are SEPERATE - purposefully divided and hidden from,the true Divine !! And see THIS is the very reason why Christ,who IS the Father in individual form,descends DIRECTLY here to themortal paradigm..It MUST happen,in order to literally conect the realms and exostance within them,as ONE existance..Metaphysics underpins EVERYTHING HE spoke of..

When He told us right at the tsart,that we had the wrong deity,and that NO ONE BEFORE HIM,had EVER encountered the true source,THIS is exactly what He spoke of..He told Judas the details,but as we know,his book became "heretical"...Obviously thats becasue Christ explains all the details there,and lays out creation from top to bottom..The god jehovah is a late addition,created in the manner told,and not at all,the true source of Divinity..

And there we have the first parody - first twist in the story - for this being JEHOVAH who is "expelled from the TRUE heaven" by Sofia and hidden away seperate,will later be mimicked by an Angel we called Lucifer,and the villain of the story will change due to jehovahs egoic jealous concerns..

We can be sure that Yeshua speaks of the same being,same god as the bible does,because Yeshua explains the creation of mankind,tells us absolutely that this mistaken creation happens in the heavens,then relays how Jehovah awakes to himself,alone in this seperate realm with no idea of any other existance,fully Divine,and so believes at firrt,that he is indeed the supreme source..And so he creates in his turn,Angels,heavens,realms,and eventually the Earth and us mankind..

Now above them,in the Fathers realm,is where the true Man is FIRST created - at lesat the "blueprint" is created - a perfect being called forth in the Fathers realm and named by Christ as ADAMUS..

Christ says that Adamus the true Human,is the absolute perfect creation,and this event is so magnificent that "all the realms declare His glory"..Below in jehovahs realm,they become aware for the frst time,that there is another reality surrounding them,for the commotin is so great at the perfect human creation,that the veil hiding our realm,is broken,and for the first time,jehovah and his angels are aware of OTHER forms of Divinity..But see jehovah is just as he declares himself to be,a very jealous god,and so he forbids his angels fom investigating any of this..Here really,is where our OT GENESIS scenario begins,for the supreme creation has occurred,and jehovahs realm is now aware that they are not the true Divinity..Here we see jehovah mimick the creation above,and so mankind enter stage left as it were..Be sure its all the same series of events,becase Yeshua says quite clearly,having explaine jehovahs own creation He then says that jehovah and his angels CREATED ADAM AND EVE - so for sure,Christs demigod jehovha IS the same demigod of the jews,no doubt at all ..

And yet more twists and truens start here,for an angel Lucifer,asks jehovah about the other realms they have all witnessed,and as said,jehovah forbids them all from contact..WE though,get told,Lucifer challenges jehovah - which I suppose he did in a way,but really,Lucifer just wants to encounter the TRUE Divine - so he tells jehovah "you ae not supreme",and the bible twists this into Lucifer becomes satan the evil one..

Perhaps it was this same angel then,who did indeed,give us,Adam and eve,spiritual Divine wisdom - knowledge of good and eveil as it is turned - opening Eves eyes to jehovahs deceptions..Perhaps even Lucifer is expelled dow here amongst us as we are told - it woul djust mimick jehovahs own expulsion rigt at the start..See though,it is jehovah who proclaims himself supreme god,NOT Lucifer..To my mind,Lucifer isnt the one we should mistrust,for he wanted to know the Fatherand would not settle for the counterfeit imposter.,realising that jehovah was not actually the supreme authrity after all.And to Christs mind also,this character Lucifer/Satan,doesnt even get a mention after that - certainly not branded by Christ as any kind of negative influence - that judgemnet is reserved by Christ for the demigod jehovah,whom Chrst said openly,was the "father of lies" misleading and manipulating the jews..

Now eventually,even jehovah,is so curious about the true Divine,that he investigates for himself,and when he encounters the Fathers realm,he is totaly and uttery ashamed realises his gross error - HE REPENTS,and tries to eradicate his errors - his mistakes - his SINS..He decides to destroy the world and mankind - along with lucifer and some of his rebellious angels of course we are told - and so we have Noahs account,and now also,arises the NEED for the Christ to intervene DIRECTLY..

So the situation then was one of mortal man being held in total ignorance of his origins by a jealous and domineering creator god,and even upon death,the Soul of man was stll unable to obtain the true source,come to the Father,becasue simply,we were hidden and purposefuly divided from that realm entirely..Hence,Christ takes a direct mortal form,primariy to facilitate an actual metaphysical conduit,linking the mind of the Father directly to the mortal human paradigm (remember here,Christ says its ALL ABOUT MIND,for that is what the Father IS) - and in so doing,He sought to teach us the truth of both our physical and spiritual situation..

Remember Sofia..?..Well,she wishes to redeem her son,to make amends,for remeber,it is her and her misplaced conception that starts all this..She instructs the rebellious angels who have already aided mankind by telling us the truth,and she tells these Angels to watch over us,continue to lead and guide us - thus through such Divine intervention,the truth is PROPHESISED by the authors of the OLD TESTAMANT - which contains BOTH the narrative form jehovahs own perspective BEFORE his act of repentance,and also,includes the knowldge of the Christ,His necassary arrival,the true "need for salvation|"..

The OT is TOTALLY Divine inspiration..I mean TOTALLY - which is why we do indeed find CODES embedded within it,the fingerprint of Divinity..Consider here though - there are many authors to many books in the OT..Some are speaking from jehovahs perspective - and some are speaking from the Fathers perspective..All the narratives of the Isaraelites are directly from jehovah..When Moses encounterd his burining bush,that was jehovah,NOT the Father..the ten commandments,,likewise jehovahs dictates,nothing to do with the Father..All the commands for sacrifice,rules regulations,wars,slavery - the whole culture - JEHOVAHS DOING - NOT the Father..

When though,it speaks of a "messiah",prophesises future occurrences,this is input from after jehovahs OWN REPENTANCE..This is Divine revelation direct from the Father - even if jehovah is the one that relays it to the author,still,it is the Father that commands it,sending Christ directly from the source itself..Thus,you see the OT is absolutely divinely inspired,those people at that time WERE in direct contact with the creator of mankind - but that being is not the Father of ALL creation..Thus I stand wholly by the OT,have no problems with that part of the bible at all..

But as said,the NEW testamant is something entirly seperate,and really is about their intepreation of Christ,and the Father is all but forgotten..I say this is done on puropose - because simply,Christ said most clearly,we do not need any priest or rabbi - NO INTERMEDIARY AT ALL - no religion even,for the Divine lay always within us right here,right now - accessed He said in the secret silence of our own MIND !! The NT is a retelling of Yehsua life,told to fit an agenda to keep the religious authority safe and secure in their power..I KNOW the Vatican for instance,MUST know even more details than what I present here - they MUST have complete copies of all those gospels they banned that contain the complete message,and so,they know for sure,that their power and authority is totally bogus..Hence,they indeed,ban the truth,alter it,usurp it - even torture and even murder to with hold this truth,manipulate us into beleveng this lost and hopeless situation - waitnig and relying always on church and clergy for our "salvatoion",when all along,Chirst said it was there within us,right now...They cheat and swindle us out of our Divine birthright,and so,the NEW testamant is to be avoided at all costs,for that is their preferred weaopn..

Want to really know Chirst..?..Read the banned gospels first for a basic idea - then when it sits comfortable who and what we actually are - follow His advise,and seek within always for the truth,for the Father waits for us there - not out in the temple or the written word - but the living Presence within us..As always,for those with ears to hear..

[Mathew James]

Originally Posted by PeteC-UK

Want to really know Chirst..?..Read the banned gospels first for a basic idea - then when it sits comfortable who and what we actually are - follow His advise,and seek within always for the truth,for the Father waits for us there - not out in the temple or the written word - but the living Presence within us..As always,for those with ears to hear..

In the Nag Hammadi Scriptures (Gnostic Gospels) the book called The Revelation of Peter provides an explanation of how the real Jesus did not get killed on the cross. There it states: “the one you see smiling and laughing above the cross is the living Jesus. The one into whose hands and feet they are driving nails is his fleshly part, the substitute for him. They are putting to shame the one who came into being in the likeness of the living Jesus. Look at him and look at me.’” According to the banned gospels, the living Jesus never died on the cross, but a substitute for him was nailed to the cross, which interestingly enough is what the Qur'an also says about the death of Jesus. Are you sure you want people to read the banned books from the bible?

mj

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

MJ; YES,for sure I include the gospel of Peter - for look,it IS direct revelation - written by PETER HIMSELF,first hand account..And the content is indeed absolutely Divine revealation because look at the start - Yeshua shows Peter how to access his "spiritual wisdom" - teachs him how to see and hear properly..Literaly as he says,for THOSE WITH EARS TO HEAR - those who are capable if intuitive knowing..

Understand what is going on - Right at the start here,Yeshua teaches Peter this skill - and the whole conversation is a "spiritul vision",occurring on a higher mental plane,not inthe normal mortal world..Itis intuitive communion,mind to mind directly..

Now,the specific point you raise - you believe they speak of a counterfeit or different man on the cross..?..Well,keep it in context - read what Yeshua and Peter are speaking about..Christ is explaining the errors in the priests teaching AND the errors in those who worship at the temples..He describes in general terms,categories of behaviour and points out the flaws..Now to answer your specific point then,I will quote from earlier in the passage,where Christ is explaining also,the formation of this religion that wenow have,and jow that is based on these previus errors..Consider what he says here previosuly - quite lengthy and detailed :

"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment,the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception. And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law."

Ok so thats complicated - it seems..But see it clearly..He says first many will come to Him immediately,only to go back to the old ways as they cling to their previous beliefs..He says these are the ones who can be easily saved for they are really the servants of the Word..There are many of us HERE RIGHT NOW - ALL of us who profess to once folow this religon but dont quite sit comfortale with it,understand it,and so have then left IT behind,but did NOT forget Christ as we let it go - we are this first category..

He says next though,that some are PRISONERS,trapped wholly in that former erroneous belief - and make nmo mistake He is speakin g directly about the RELIGION THAT WILL FOLLOW HIM !! He says this establishment will TRAP PEOPLE INTO FALSEHOOD..See this again for it begins to clarify your point :

"And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you."

Do you see - He is describing a false image of Him,propogated by these whom He calls the "propergators of falsehood"..See clearly,He is describing the CHURCH,the VATICAN specifically,because look - those who come after PETER !! The founders of the "christian religon" He says,are these proporgators of falsehoods,holding the people prisoner - and He says they do this by promoting this "false image" of Him the Christ,says clearly they misrepresent Him for their own agenda..

Not here,He specifically says they do so by promoting "Christ in a RESTORATION" - as in a FUTURE event,NOT accessable here and now..This FALSE IMAGE directly contradicts His truth,because he tells us plainly,the Kingdom is within you right now..The part that is trul ypertinant here though,is this where he describes the consequences of the church :

"And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law."

For those with ears to hear - He is warning us all about the formation of the christian religion,saying it will promote a false image of Him,corrupt His teaching to give power to an evil cunning man who will dictate dogma and rules but will have no true authority !!

MJ - keep itin context..All the way through He is revealing spiritual insights of the things that will transpire..He explains the means and ways of the deceptions,describes the various types of people and how they will become ensnared..When he says then,He is above laighing whilst they nail another to a tree - He means precisely that the IMAGE THEY PROMOTE is NOT the true Christ..

Hes not saying its an imposter or another person entirely - rather He is saying it is the false image of christ of the church - and that they will base their whole authoirty on the RESURRECTION - the restored christ - rather than the LIVING PRESENCE of the Divine Father..

As I have said METAPHYSICS underpins everything he says..Rememebr here,this isa SPIRITUA VISION that Christ has given to Peter..i want you then to consider the next carefully,for it shos precisely what I have been saying al along :

"Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking at those who did him violence, while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one susceptible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute. But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light. He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Pleroma, which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit."

OK - so He says to have faith,be strong - for the body is the vessel and not the Soul - the body is of "Elohim",the creators of this realm He says and is the HOME OF DEMONS,meaning of the LOWER MIND,because look,its all about mind coming down from the Divine to inhabit a mortal form - never forget the metapyhsics or understanding is lost..

He explains next that He is joyful at the death of the body,for they have RELEASED HIM - the the true Self,described as "the intellectual spirit filled with radiant light" - because look and rememeber,He describes the Father as being EXACTLY the Divine light with full Sentient mind..He is saying that the mortal death was NECASSARY to allow this to happen..He then finishes by saying that this act of mortal death allowed his PLEROMA to approach and merge with THIS realm..

METAPHYSICS - as I have said - he came to essentially build a bridge,a conduit,a connectin that did not exist before..First he had to take His essence right down to our base level,then allow it to ascend and rejoin His full Being - the PLEROMA means precisely that,fullest faculty,fullest Presence..He says clearly the act unites the Light (the substance of creation,the material world,the energy our scientists speak of) - His mission was to unite this energy here,with the "HOly spirit" of the TRUE source - thus merging the Fathers mind and presence,pleroma,with the mortal paradigm,allowing our Souls o finally transcend our imposed boundaries..

Now as you see,He is most clearly dead against the religon - told us very celarly time and time agan to stay clear of it..See the confusion it bought..Im glad you mention the gnostic gospel of Peter,for it just clarifies even further,the whole catalogue of errors that I have been speaking of..You see Christ describe the church,its hericachy,it methods,its deceptions - He describes the followers,explains their errors,their gullability and how they are misled - and finally explains why He needed to take mortal form,to set all this straight,to show the people and to facilitate theirr true Divine birthriht - and even though He said all along the church would mislead so so many in His Name,nevertheless,He knew also,there would be those still amongst us,that understand His meaning..For those with ears to hear..

[knightofalbion]

The same Peter who in the first century Clementine Homilies declares 'in his own words' that he is vegan ["I eat naught but bread and olives and less often a few vegetables] and later on in the text it states that those who eat flesh are 'dining companions with devils' ....

The text in the Revelation of Peter it would seem is a mystical commentary on the great spiritual truth that man is spirit in a physical body.
Christ was not killed on the cross. The death was a symbolic death. Essential for the completion of the story, for there is a hidden lesson in all the recorded acts of Christ's earthly ministry.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by PeteC-UK

Knight;
1) There are two very distinct parts to the bible - old and new testamant..Now,in regard to ANY ASPECT of truth - you can almost completly forget the NEW testamant..

2) The OLD TESTAMANT THOUGH - now THERE IS TRUTH,all the way through,there is Divine revealtion..There is no hypocrasy there between the two statements,no confusion or error..

3) Want to really know Chirst..?..Read the banned gospels first for a basic idea - then when it sits comfortable who and what we actually are - follow His advise,and seek within always for the truth,for the Father waits for us there - not out in the temple or the written word - but the living Presence within us..As always,for those with ears to hear..

1) Okay so we'll bin the New Testament

2) No hypocrisy or contradiction in the OT?
Tell me ...
The vicious, vengeful, violent god of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, who, apparently, craves for bloody feasts and animal sacrifices OR the gentle, loving, peaceful God of Isaiah who states quite clearly that He never asked for or wanted bloody feasts and animal sacrifices, and that He will turn His face and not hear the prayers of those who do perform such acts.
Which is it? Can't both be true.

Does not the OT even in the violent sections expressly forbid the partaking of animal blood and fat, even, apparently, under sentence of the curse of God?
Do you eat kosher?

God created man in His image, in the spiritual sense.
But man got ideas above his station and later decided to recreate God in his image instead ...

3) This from the man who penned post 271.
'Faith without charity is dead. Love is the fulfilling of the Law.'
Let those who have ears hear ...

[Mathew James]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Christ was not killed on the cross. The death was a symbolic death.

If that is true, then Christ did not die for anyones sins.

mj

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Mathew James

If that is true, then Christ did not die for anyones sins.

mj

On the contrary, he redeemed humanity from the sin against love and lit the path for the ultimate redemption of all.

Forgiveness is automatic where there is love.
God in His infinite mercy forgives sins, but forgiveness does not expunge the debt. We still have to reap what we have sown.

Cause & Effect: A self-regulating law and a just law.
Do wrong, make amends. That seems perfectly fair to me.

And consider this, if one is truly penitent ( and especially so if one is spiritually awakened) then one wants to make amends, like for like, and in truth, even more than like for like.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Knight; Well,frist off - same advise again here - keep it in context - see Clementine Homolies - written by POPE CLEMENT,one of the earliest founders of this new religion - NOT the old jewish faith,but the new "christian religion" - the very same religion that Yeshua Christ speaks of to Peter,saying they are the ones who will hold us PRISONERS by twistng His teaching...

So then,I tell you to ignore the new religon completely,and your immediate response to that is to point me back to it as that is your only referance,only source of info here..Keep it in context - this new religon just forming back in the day,is strugling against both the old jewish faith - a distinct divide between those believing Yeshua is messiah and those who do not - and also this new religon is struggling against the Roman invading authority as well..To keep peace basically,it swapped and adopted many practices from all the surrounding cultures and history - until eventualy what amounts really to a political deal is struck in Nicea and the credo is formalised,gospels are canonised or disgarded accordingly and rome gives it al the seal of approval..

This Pope Clement would then be the very type of person that Yeshua warned us directly about..Again,from Peters Apocalype,part of that same conversation above,Yeshua says this about the clerical authorities :

"And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."

See,lets be clear - OUTSIDE OUR NUMBER - obviously means the people who do NOT KNOW CHRIST - He says some of these will claim this false authority given them by their leaders,and will be called Bishops and deacons - most obviously He is refferring to the religious establishment and its pwer structured heirachy..He says these people are dry canals - meaning they cannot lead you anywhere at all..

Its quite absurd that people quote things about Christ from the bible of all places,expecting to come to understand Him,when all along He was actually warning that the religion itself,would corrupt His teaching complelty..And if anyone still doubts that He is condemning this establishing religion,then consider this also:

"And still others of them who suffer think that they will perfect the wisdom of the brotherhood which really exists, which is the spiritual fellowship of those united in communion, through which the wedding of incorruptibility shall be revealed. The kindred race of the sisterhood will appear as an imitation. These are the ones who oppress their brothers, saying to them, "Through this our God has pity, since salvation comes to us through this," not knowing the punishment of those who are made glad by those who have done this thing to the little ones whom they saw, (and) whom they took prisoner."

See here,He is berating those who teach that suffering,martydom,bowing down as the christians term it,meek and humble - He is saying these things do NOT lead to Wisdom after all,but this church will use it to keep us prisoners regardless..He says especialy,a FEMALE order will arise to mimick the true brotherhood and communion and this order will be the true oppressors,promoting the lie the most and the fullest,by teaching that this suffering is to be abided for the "sake of salvation" and if we just accept our lot in life without question,then this god will "pity us" and save us..

Now - keep it in context - and we can be sure He is speaking about the church formed in His name,the modern christian religion we are now stuck with - because see and realise that in HIS time,there was no such thing as a FEMALE religous order - no such thing existed anywhere,for women were then an "after thought" in all spiritual concerns..When Christ speaks then of this female order promoting the church lie blindly and devoutly,be sure He is speaking about the orders of CATHOLIC NUNS,for in all the judeo religions,there was NO SUCH THING AS A FEMALE ORDER..Catholicism is the only one that embraces and makes use of that station - make no mistakes here - He IS speaking specificaly of the RC church,this modern christian religion - and He is utterly condeming ofit..Any doubts,just read that whole ocnversation,Yeshua and Peter,keep itin context,and all will be revealed....

Read what HE says,apply it to our modern language..All throughout Peters Aocalypse,Christ is explainng the how and why of peoples actions - explaining the how and why thisnew religon wil form - and explaining the tricjs and chicanery they will use to dominate and keep the people "prisoners",as HE terms it !!

And so I saya again - the NEW testamant,is to be avoided at all costs - becasue see cleaaly,here is Christ explaining it all in detail,and this NEW testamant,is indeed the "book of the new religion",which He says is totally corrupt and purposefuly misleading..

Oh,and Knight - NO,there is no real hypocrasy in the old testamant..You have to rememebr,that the god there is a CREATURE same as you and I - it has EGO - same as you and I - it has personality,needs,desires,fears - and it already told us right up front,it is a JEALOUS god..Therefore,dont be suprised if it denies certain of its own actions,or contradicts itself it seems,for it is NOT the full Divinity,but is a CREATURE with a "split mind" EXACTLY the same as you or I..

Its really important to grasp that essential fact - the god of the bible is NOT the Father Christ spoke of - make allowances always based on this essential truth - Yeshua is ALWAYS coming from the perspective directly from source,where as the bible authors are coming from jehovahs lesser perspecive..

Oh - and did my mate physically die by crucifixtion..?..Oh yes for sure He did..Have any doubts,just check out the ROMAN RECORDS - for they record the event,even though they are HIS ENEMIES,still they agree with the general narrative and provide an external proof that all this did actually happen..