Morality vs Experience

[Starman]

Stages, or levels, of aggressive escalation from the least intense to the
worst intense:

Upset - Mild
Agitated - Serious
Mad - Seriously Absorbed
Angry - Potentially Explosive
Enraged - Extremely Explosive

It is helpful to identify our feelings, and pinpoint what aroused our anger.
We do this by being aware of the red flags that indicate we are on the road
towards anger, and allow ourselves not to get swept up in it by taking a
mental and emotional time out.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Ariaecheflame

Hello.

Your musings remind me of when I learnt the origin of the word 'sin' as it was intended...
Sin as a 'miss step' (away from core self/ God self).

I like that definition of sin... It makes more sense to me on a personal level.
Right Vs wrong on a very personal level makes me think of this particular definition of sin.

Anger is an interesting example as anger in my experience of it can be a feeling which either encourages me towards love or pushes me away from it. There is a choice somewhere in the mix.

Perhaps the 'sin' or 'wrong' doing is the actions or e-motions which subsequently follow the initial feeling... Causing it to have motion either away from core self/core love.

I was having similar thought processes with shame and anger myself a week or so back and used compassion as my vehicle to take a step to the 'right' towards my core self.

Have a nice day/night.

Aria.

Yep seemed like a real revelation to me too when I first came across the definition of Sin as " missing the mark. " It was different I haven't really been inclined to follow up on that lead in a way. I've looked more deeply at socio and political motivations for Anger, the ideas of justified anger if they exist at all etc. Revolution in all its forms what brings these movements into being in ourselves and in groups etc. Do the poor have the right to be angry ? And what to do with that ? And also the idea possibly that some more privileged socio economic group lords it over another ? What to do with the Catholic Priests who up took up an arm struggle against certain landowners in South America on behalf of the poor ? Anyway it's a huge area and that is just a simple example.

On a personal level i agree with the idea of using compassion as you say. It is an effective tool if i may call it that. I think i wanted to stress in my post the reasons why there are generally espoused or approved definitions of right and wrong. Where did this consensus come from and does it make sense. Looking at it quickly and briefly, it does make sense and we rely on this moral consensus backed up by law to function as a society. Obviously the 'moral consensus' if i may call it that evolves with civilisation. As has been pointed out more recently than any other period it seems that this 'moral consensus' can be used, manipulated to control the masses ?

That been said in my post I was trying to explore the idea that came to me that we have consensus that anger is wrong from Daytime chat shows to every level of civilised society. Sorry I'm struggling for words too tough to explain...Simply that when we experience anger or any other 'negative' emotion we block out the sunlight if you like, like a cloud. We block out our own sunlight...in some way. I was trying to say that is much different than been told your anger is not cool by any group within society. I suppose I was trying to stress experiencing that anger is toxic as opposed to following the norm, although that might be an effective way to control your anger and I'm not dissing that. There is an aphorism which says the biggest thing you can steal from me is my Peace of Mind ? Not my car. my house. my position in society ? Although no one would like to be robbed of these things, goes without saying. Anyway I'm struggling for words to say what i need to say thanks for your reply.

Ps. For better clarification refer to lemex's post and my reply to it...Bless. :)

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

On this topic I would recommend reading the essay entitled,

“Standards of Conduct and Spiritual Freedom”

Chapter VII in Part I of Sri Aurobindo’s “The Synthesis of Yoga”,
available here in PDF format:
https://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/s...o/writings.php
Scroll down to Vol 23-24 after linking.

Excerpts:

Hope this is helpful.

~ J

Super Jyotir !!! I look forward to reading it. Was very pleased to see it and appreciate it too.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

An easy way is to contemplate right vs wrong as consciousness expansion vs contraction as in a sustained emotion assimilated as related to corresponding thought entertained and indulged in. What vibrations bring about inner alignment?

***

Thank you for your insight

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by lemex

I agree. This information has always been there. It always been true but not seen. My own view is, they were not wrong but upon the right time we can say, I understand what they said now. I see it. Anger is an emotion, anger is very energetic and powerful, it is extremely intense. For those who experience anger we crave it's intensity. There is in fact much more to learn. It takes us away from our center and becomes the center because of the way it feels and makes one feel. Anger is used to express anger which also means it is based on intention. One can also experience how anger feels to the body, the body does not like it. I take this to be meaningful as well. This is a universal law and universal morality not just society or religion. I tend to look at it this way, if I had told myself this before would I have believed it? This is knowledge the body gives as well if one listens. With this being said, this knowledge even allows us to see anger that others do not see.

Thanks very much lemex, thats wise and useful too. The terms universal law and universal morality are ones i was struggling for so thanks for reminding me. So we could have lets say Universal Law and Universal Morality vs Man Made Law and Man Made Reality. The Man Made Laws and Morality could stem from or be inspired by Universal Law and Universal Morality or they may not as the case maybe ? Excellent Lemex thanks for helping me clarify that.

Also thank you for acknowledging that the body does not like the feeling that anger leaves inside it or gives to it. Absolutely fascinating and that really struck me ! ok thanks again all the best.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Everything we feel is an opportunity to source yourself deeper/clearer. Distractions giving reasons to feelings are just that, distractions. Society, parents create all manner of pacts, arrangements, ideas about what we feel as children. Ever seen a child in full blown two year old reactive anger/tantrums. If they are given safe space, protection to them and others, allowed to feel it, it’s done and dusted in no time. Parents created distractions as to not deal, not feel how they feel in the face of it. Believing anger was bad and wrong to feel. Children are great teachers on how to feel fully. Pays to listen to them and your own inner child. Most angry people are those who haven’t been allowed to feel that fullness as children.

Feeling without name or cause, strong emotions, can pass faster just by staying present and letting the fullness be released.

Yes definitely taking the investigation towards childhood can be fruitful no doubt. And observing how a young child deals with their emotions is fascinating and worth observing, thank you so much useful and salient points.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Anger: This is only a symptom of an underlying fault in character.

When anger arises it is a good practice to locate it's root.

In my experience the root has been some form of self-centered desire or fear.

Yes definitely. Following the anger to it's source could be a worthy thing to do..hopefully not from the inside of a prison cell...but if needs be. lol...Often however in the heat of an angry confrontation or feeling its hard to launch an investigation on the spot as to why the anger has arisen ..but that doesnt mean its not worth while...maybe after the anger has subsided. thanks

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Often beneath anger at its root, is sadness related to loss in some form.

ive often found that to be the case. So true, ive often drifted between anger and sadness, between outrage and tears. So the correlation is definitely there in my experience.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Starman

Anger is not wrong, it is what we do with anger that may make it right or wrong. It sounds like your upbringing or moral
programming has taught you it is "bad" to get angry, and in American, and some other cultures, most people are afraid of anger.
Actually they are afraid of what can come out of anger. But anger is a natural human emotion.

Anger can be healthy if you find a safe release for it. A sport, a hobby, a physical exercise, or something else that can help you
safely release your anger, might be used on a regular basis. People who don't know how to handle their anger usually have anger
outbursts.

Most people do not know the difference between being aggressive and being assertive. A person who is effectively assertive will
have less aggressive experiences; they most likely will not display anger on a regular basis. But a lot of males will go straight to
being aggressive bypassing being assertive. Being assertive is preferable to being aggressive.

Anger comes from stored up unexpressed feelings. Feelings that were not directly expressed to the target can make a person
agitated, and that agitation can build up and over spill into displaced anger. What I am sharing here is from my experience of having
worked in the healthcare field for many decades. I am now retired but I gathered a large knowledge base and skill base over a period
of more than 40-years.

Anger is not the problem rather the problem is how we fail to handle anger. A psychological model of patho-genisus: An unmet need if
left unmet long enough can become painful, pain if unaddressed can turn into anger, anger can turn into rage, and rage can become a
behavior problem. This is a very general basic view of how emotions can turn into pathology.

I would recommend that you find a healthy, and safe, outlet for your anger. Running or some other type of vigorous exercise works for
lots of people. Stay away from alcohol when you are angry and also stay away from the moralizing when you are angry. Don't lay a guilt
trip on your self because you got angry, rather take some safe option to address it. Learn how to assert your self in a polite way before
the anger builds up; this is a proactive way to decrease your anger. Good luck.

Excellent ! I will re-read your post as if contains great information...especially the escalation from unmet needs through to pain and then anger etc. Thank you for sharing your knowledge freely and experience particularly within the heath-care system. The point of what to do with anger as opposed to saying that it isn't there could be a very useful building block on which to build a strategy for dealing with destructive anger. I like what you say about assertion , very interesting. Thanks once again for sharing.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Gem

Hi Joe.


Well said.


I am not going to say that anger isn't bad because lots of bad stuff happens and people get harmed when people get mad. Most people think we have to express our emotions, or otherwise, repress them, but we don't. It's simply true this emotion feels like this, and soon enough it changes and passes away.

Hey Gem, Good to see you. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Yep the subsiding is an interesting phenomenon all of itself. hmmm food for thought mate. All the best :)