Integrate or Renounce .

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

It's difficult to say which state is better or worse, lol, a peep brainwashed into knocking on your door reciting passages from the bible or a peep teaching others about detachment while smoking or holding retreats for $1000 bucks a week .

Hahaha From your perspective or mine, no argument there. Actually, I prefer those marshmallow peeps. Not to eat, but regarding their indestructible composition. Could send them into space unfazed by temperature or radiation...

Ok...I picked on Niz and "false" neti neti a bit last time. So now I'm going to do a bit of balancing on the discussion.

So...the brainwashed folks cannot be assumed to know anything at all. They may believe Charles Bronson is the 2nd coming and may support killing in his name for all we know...all whilst being stoned or blissed out or what have ye. Whereas the guru may be a bit hypocritical and/or materialistic, etc., even cheesy perhaps. But his detachment is of the (at least on some level) conscious denial sort.

This is why Niz has to be aware enough to realise the contradiction of having a real self which is not addicted whilst his real self is having a smoke. He's got to have the presence of mind to say "I smoke because my body is addicted...but see that's not the REAL me -- who is really elsewhere whilst I'm smoking 'in the body' "....it's a conscious denial and an intentionally artificial partitioning of sorts that allows him to contort his mental picture of the "real self" into a separate box.

But if he weren't at least conscious of his denial on some level, he'd not be able to justify it with language (however thinly), as he's attempted to do. Now...whenever he begins to find it tiresome to constantly justify the integrity gap, he'll be ready and able to confront the integrity gap...as he's clearly well aware of the gap, with all the justifications about how it's the fault of "the body" which has a gun to the head of the real self, apparently, hahaha... The awareness...even in the denial of what it reveals (revealing the integrity gap...which is the real point of neti neti)...is his eventual salvation.

However, the bliss bunny types...do they have a clue about the integrity gap as they present it and manifest it in their own lives? And the bigger question is, who thinks they even give a damn? Really, it's hard for any of us to say for others of course, but generally speaking, I don't think we can make the assumption that those who seek highs as a goal necessarily care much for how they treat others...if at all. It's more the toddler's totalitarian mindset dedicated to the primacy (or the altar) of the self...a primitive, ruthlessly self-absorbed focus on one's own highs and pleasures.

Meanwhile, it's in the concrete manifestation of authentic love in word and deed with one another in which we can determine own our level of heart awareness as we live it. In the doing and the being. Not in anyone's pontificating, nor in their own very singular and self-absorbed pursuit of bliss and self-pleasuring.

Bliss as an end goal is narcissistic and stunting spiritually IMO, every bit as much as endless indulgence of any other feeling or pleasure. And that is the core reason IMO that Buddha said "know the emptiness, but do not dwell there". Ppl think he meant that you'll go mad trying to dwell there...and maybe you would. As you say, the peaks are unsustainable and intentionally so. But that's not the real danger at all, IMO. Narcissism is a far greater danger to the soul than madness, I'd say

There is a lot to live up to when your put on a pedestal, sometimes even when one goes against the grain of their own teachings, one disciples are either blind to it or one ignores it or wraps it up as something it's not .

Don't get me wrong, it can become very difficult to live by example when the bar is raised to extreme heights ..

I would say the non attached bliss bunny state/s have a shelf life and it's beyond one's immediate control how long certain states last, I think the problem for some is that because these dizzy heights are temporary, when there is a down turn, one tries to live up to what one previously experienced / attained .

This is why Ramana tried to maintain the so called perfect state and was unhappy that he couldn't .

I think many masters left out the downward spiral that is inevitable at a certain point while experiencing the mind-body ..

If they had perhaps spoke about this aspect, then there would not be the requirement to live up to their primeness or become conflicted within denying their attachments, even if their attachments were to them illusory based .

x daz x

Yup....

Because...they either came to the point where their narcissistic pursuit of bliss claimed them fully...and then sod you, you can figure out the downward part on your own.

OR else, they saw the hollowness of it as the primary goal...but they simply hadn't the heart to own both their wisdom and their shame publically... Could be either really. S'alright...I think many these days get the perils and pitfalls of that extreme. We understand that, for some at the time, pursuit of bliss seemed to promise so much endlessly, with "no danger whatsoever" in the total, unhinged, and unfettered indulgence of wants and desires...so long as they called it "spiritual"
Easy enough for many to be misled, eh?

Peace & blessings, Dazzle D
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hahaha From your perspective or mine, no argument there. Actually, I prefer those marshmallow peeps. Not to eat, but regarding their indestructible composition. Could send them into space unfazed by temperature or radiation...

Ok...I picked on Niz and "false" neti neti a bit last time. So now I'm going to do a bit of balancing on the discussion.

So...the brainwashed folks cannot be assumed to know anything at all. They may believe Charles Bronson is the 2nd coming and may support killing in his name for all we know...all whilst being stoned or blissed out or what have ye. Whereas the guru may be a bit hypocritical and/or materialistic, etc., even cheesy perhaps. But his detachment is of the (at least on some level) conscious denial sort.

This is why Niz has to be aware enough to realise the contradiction of having a real self which is not addicted whilst his real self is having a smoke. He's got to have the presence of mind to say "I smoke because my body is addicted...but see that's not the REAL me -- who is really elsewhere whilst I'm smoking 'in the body' "....it's a conscious denial and an intentionally artificial partitioning of sorts that allows him to contort his mental picture of the "real self" into a separate box.

But if he weren't at least conscious of his denial on some level, he'd not be able to justify it with language (however thinly), as he's attempted to do. Now...whenever he begins to find it tiresome to constantly justify the integrity gap, he'll be ready and able to confront the integrity gap...as he's clearly well aware of the gap, with all the justifications about how it's the fault of "the body" which has a gun to the head of the real self, apparently, hahaha... The awareness...even in the denial of what it reveals (revealing the integrity gap...which is the real point of neti neti)...is his eventual salvation.

However, the bliss bunny types...do they have a clue about the integrity gap as they present it and manifest it in their own lives? And the bigger question is, who thinks they even give a damn? Really, it's hard for any of us to say for others of course, but generally speaking, I don't think we can make the assumption that those who seek highs as a goal necessarily care much for how they treat others...if at all. It's more the toddler's totalitarian mindset dedicated to the primacy (or the altar) of the self...a primitive, ruthlessly self-absorbed focus on one's own highs and pleasures.

Meanwhile, it's in the concrete manifestation of authentic love in word and deed with one another in which we can determine own our level of heart awareness as we live it. In the doing and the being. Not in anyone's pontificating, nor in their own very singular and self-absorbed pursuit of bliss and self-pleasuring.

Bliss as an end goal is narcissistic and stunting spiritually IMO, every bit as much as endless indulgence of any other feeling or pleasure. And that is the core reason IMO that Buddha said "know the emptiness, but do not dwell there". Ppl think he meant that you'll go mad trying to dwell there...and maybe you would. As you say, the peaks are unsustainable and intentionally so. But that's not the real danger at all, IMO. Narcissism is a far greater danger to the soul than madness, I'd say




Yup....

Because...they either came to the point where their narcissistic pursuit of bliss claimed them fully...and then sod you, you can figure out the downward part on your own.

OR else, they saw the hollowness of it as the primary goal...but they simply hadn't the heart to own both their wisdom and their shame publically... Could be either really. S'alright...I think many these days get the perils and pitfalls of that extreme. We understand that, for some at the time, pursuit of bliss seemed to promise so much endlessly, with "no danger whatsoever" in the total, unhinged, and unfettered indulgence of wants and desires...so long as they called it "spiritual"
Easy enough for many to be misled, eh?

Peace & blessings, Dazzle D
7L

Another point is that some teacher peeps perceive that anything that is temporary is not real therefore how can such peeps admit that the blissful Self realization has waned off .

One minute I AM the real Self and then the next minute I AM not .

How can as another example one say that no-one is here one minute and yet hold on to some kind of pretence / denial the next, how can no one that is here equally hold onto something that is true? .

If the awareness of self is no more than just a dream character then how can a dream character be totally awake within a dream?

How can an illusory self that is unreal that is experiencing these temporary state/s realization/s be telling the absolute truth about beyond all of that?



x daz x

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Good morning to you, Muffin

Someone else's wording is someone else's expression and not yours. Say what you mean and mean what you say, express yourself after your own fashion.

We all need reminders, Muffin, so thank you too. You remind me that gentleness and innocence have not been completely lost after all.

In my childhood Christmas wasn't the best of times, poverty reared its ugly head over too many years. I do remember one year discovering a wooden magnetic chess set I was going to get for Christmas. I took it to school on the last day of break-up for the holidays and told my friend that I was going to get it for my Christmas as we played. That spoiled the surprise, not just in that I was going to get something I wanted but I was going to... Changed days.

I had an 'episode' back in '88 - '89 or so, while people talk of awakenings mine was more of a burst wide open and I was being downloaded into. Names, languages, signs....... It got to the stage where all I could do is sit down and write it all out, otherwise my head was going to explode. I knew things and didn't know where they came from, didn't know why I had them in my head or what I was going to do with them.

When they stopped I was thankful, missing them and wondering what happened and why.

I still do that, feel the energies change and shift around me but the feelings aren't what they used to be. What makes them more noticeable is the contrast or potential difference between the two frequencies and while I still experience them they're more subtle.

Regardless of chronological age the Child Inside has always been inside, and I can only hope that it's an innocence that will never be lost. The child had its own wisdom, the adult has the wisdom of the child.

I have children and grandchildren so there will be something of me always remaining physically, just the same as I have some of my father's genes and there's something of him remaining. This world started changing because of me before I was born, my father was killed when my mother was six months pregnant with me and the only reason she didn't follow him was because I was in the womb. I have three brothers who are also grandparents.

Little sparks remain just the same and will remain log after my name is forgotten. Each spark lights another spark and so on, and we all do just the same. What changes is the nature of the spark.

Good morning Greenslade

I'm sorry for the lost of your father, in someways I can relate and in other ways I wouldn't even come close, in what it was like for you growing up without your father.

I was wondering if you had done any goof stuff before your 'episode', the reason for goofy stuff is I didn't know what things were called growing up. It's something I never talked about, learnt that pretty early on, tell people what they want to hear, not, what they don't want to hear, makes life far easier.

It wasn't something people would talk about and the internet didn't come along till I was 40 and then it was gaming, so I didn't really start looking till about 6 months or so before someone took me on a ride, my better half.

And the same here, they are more subtle. The thing is we still do feel them. This is one of things that was drum into me, to "feel"., among other things.
My better half is good at that, whack, pay attention.

One thing I have found that has changed is in the messages that come over, some you can take at face value, others it's the message behind what been shown or it can be in the surrounding area. If anything they have become stronger.

As for me married no kids, don't think my wife could handle another one, ones enough.

Did you know only 5 more weeks till Christmas

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Another point is that some teacher peeps perceive that anything that is temporary is not real therefore how can such peeps admit that the blissful Self realization has waned off .

LOL...well there you go. What some simply can't admit (as either addicts or as narcissists) that it's the "endless bliss" that's temporary, full stop. It doesn't mean they cease to exist or that their real self is "out the window" simply because they've passed into a more grounded or less stoned phase, hahaha. That sort of wacky realisation (the bliss has ebbed and therefore somehow I am not what I am) is itself the product of an ungrounded and perhaps a bit unhinged perspective.

Grounding and time and structure is always there to provide balance to the stoner's or pleasure seeker's imbalances, when they are ready for it and/or hit bottom and are forced to seek more balance in their lives. To be honest, the foundational sublime joy of living in unity with oneself and with what is, whilst seeking the highest good of all equally, is beyond description...it is life-changing, and it doesn't need to be ramped up to satisfy the addict's craving for highs or rushes.

Eventually, with time and experience and grace and wisdom, the bliss seekers may come to apprehend that bliss is just the symptom of the primary cause, which is authentic love in being and doing. It's not hard to grasp, really, once one gets clean of the high and the mind and heart obtain some clarity. The rush of bliss is not itself the foundational cause of anything and is not self-sustaining. It secondarily arises from the love and unity of what is, like the buzz we get from a drink. Or like the rush Niz gets from a smoke. Except that these are drugs...whilst the sublime joy which is authentic love in being and doing, is not.

One minute I AM the real Self and then the next minute I AM not .

How can as another example one say that no-one is here one minute and yet hold on to some kind of pretence / denial the next, how can no one that is here equally hold onto something that is true? .

If the awareness of self is no more than just a dream character then how can a dream character be totally awake within a dream?

How can an illusory self that is unreal that is experiencing these temporary state/s realization/s be telling the absolute truth about beyond all of that?

x daz x

Agreed. A lot of contradictions in there...my head is spinning!
I think I'd rather address the integrity gap and get on with things, hahaha

If we address the integrity gap within ourselves rather than getting stoned and living in all those complicated contradictions you describe so well...and seeking bliss like an addict seeks a fix...we can instead begin to manifest who we are in unity rather than who we are in misalignment. And then we can each truly begin to change the world. By changing What Is in this now moment. IMO, isn't that so much more magical and illuminating and inspirational? Just the simple act of being and doing is all the bliss we need...or very close to it, anyway

For me, authentic love of what is, is so much more beautiful, true, good and yes blissful than the pursuit of bliss for its own sake. True, it can seem tough to encompass the dark and nasty bits with authentic love, but authentic love is also strong and disciplined. Authentic love sets boundaries for a mutuality of civility and honour and respect. Authentic love also says no to feeding the wolf of sadism and savagery and any unhinged, singular pursuit of oneself above all others (including one's bliss, LOL). Authentic love is an acknowledgment of what is up to this moment but it is also a statement of what will be in this moment and going forward. Above all, it is real and present and grounded, and the bliss it naturally manifests is the product of that reality. Some folks seem to have a hard time grasping that it's precisely what is real and present and grounded which is also unbound by time and space. That's how you know it's REAL. They're seeking the temporary bliss rather than the timeless bliss and sublime joy of authentic love...and they've got to figure out the difference for themselves.

Peace & blessings Dazzer
7L

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Greenslade,

Thank you. I feel a grounded way of looking at this in your words.

Perhaps that is the key, to be grounded. Meaning, to look around and use this experience of living here in the physical.

What makes one self up? This does seem to get complicated. It seems the more I find and/or realize, it reveals more to understand.

I know some things, many things I do not. In not knowing, ask myself whether or not it is even required or needed to know. I feel energy, yet may not know what it brings may mean until it manifests in some way in which my mind can associate with it and incorporate in some way.

So, it seems what is experienced, thought, and sensed comes back to this self, this guy. See it reflected back to me. Not so much a control thing just an observation. I have choices as to whether to respond or not, what direction I can take, whether to react, ect.., some of this can control, some adjusting to what occurs. But the Universe and nature does it thing as well, which this self does not control.

The Universe and world has been doing its thing long before we came along. This indicates that there is something "beyond" us, but we are being us at present, so have to live with this and/or among this.

Can we truly renounce all this? For are we separate from any of this interaction?
I don't find the inclination to do so. I enjoy being this guy. It has taken me a lot of effort to come to this point.

At times it is not about knowing, more about noticing and do what I can at the moment to live with it or adjust. May not sound all that spiritual, but not trying to be that anyways, just living within this realm of existence at present.

Understand the distinction made and labels given to give the mind some sort of direction. Understand these are what has been created by what is thought and known in some ways at present.

In short find most take what applies to him/her anyways. For that is what most can deal with, including this guy. We interact and intertwine, share in some common thoughts, influenced by the energy that flows. With in all this what is reflected? Through whom or what does it get processed and projected?

Yes it does seem it is according to where one stands and places oneself that affects what is being experienced and in what manner it may be taken in or left to be, IMO.

We look at everywhere except where the answers lie - inside ourselves. You are the answer looking for the question and this is a Journey to Self. Perhaps Spirituality has it all wrong, many look at the Universe through the lens of Spirituality but is not the whole Universe and everything in it not Spiritual?

Self is not complicated, Self is simply a lot of uncomplicated all in one place. How you move your muscles to type this might seem as complicated but really it's a series of flexing and relaxing of muscles. Like breathing. The energy just is and your self perceives it in the moment, where it comes from and where it goes belongs to another place and time. But really, what is important? Is it important that you understand your perceptions in this way using those words, or is it enough to perceive yourself as a part of something greater than yourself?

"Life, indeed, is like one of those lava lamps.
Turn the Light on, ramp up the heat
And things just kinda gloops around a bit like gloopy stuff does."
Greenslade
The Two Te Ching for the Modern Day

In a silly mood right now but there's something a little more serious behind it. Once upon a time my Spiritual environment was much more forgiving, people didn't seem to mind a more poetic or exploratory Spirituality. Today it's much more serious.

If there is no distinction between the experiencer and the experienced what does that say about us when we label this experience as 'negative' or 'toxic'? Or we integrate and renounce?

The question is, what is the question?

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Greenslade and how are you? How's your shift coming along? I'm glad you found something that might resonate or provide meaning. I think the sanctity of the body is infinite and beyond description, just as with every other aspect of our being.

I agree with you about the toilet...and so do many others. There is a blessing said since at least medieval times that gives thanks for the fact that we have orifices that allow for health and life and elimination, for without them the physical body could not endure.

I'm good thanks, 7L. How the devil are you?

This time of year hasn't always been the best in many ways but this year isn't so bad somehow.

I was in one of those training sessions at work and they started with a little warm-up exercise. The trainer gave us plastic pieces one by one, the goal was to create a pattern with them. I've yet to make one out of that particular session but I learned about myself. I'm a lateral thinker, they tend not to create patterns too quickly and often change the patterns just to incorporate another piece of information. Column thinkers create patterns very quickly and accept or reject new information based on those patterns. Without the body and its functions how would our Spirituality fare?

"Every aspect of our being." How our minds work is an important part of our Spirituality as is our emotional states but they're seldom talked about in these forums. Yes I understand it's a Spiritual forum but isn't our state of mind and being as much parts of our Spirituality?

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

The triple burner reference is very much in the same vein, a physicalourc manifestation of the interconnectedness of different aspects of Source consciousness within each of us, both the ethereal and the denser material emanations.

Peace & blessings
7L

"Who is wise and understanding among you? Show by your good Life that your words are done with gentleness born of wisdom.
The Spiritual Life and the world of the everyday are not split apart in the message of Jesus."
Marcus J. Borg
Meeting Jesus again for the first time.

I came across that quote in around 2000 or so and wrote in a notebook that's sitting not a couple of feet from me, very much a reference to the triple burner and very much in line with what's happening around me at the moment.

Thank you, for being you.

Originally Posted by God-Like

A single consciousness feeling lack? Alone with no one to play with and didn't know anything about itself?


x daz x

Well yes, integrate or renounce and because.....?

I don't either integrate nor renounce, I come across things that inspire me in the moment and I'll 'adopt' them in the moment. That way of thinking inspired me at the time and became a 'seed'. We are supposed to be the Universe trying to figure itself out, along with any number of alternatives 'out there'.

Originally Posted by muffin

Good morning Greenslade

I'm sorry for the lost of your father, in someways I can relate and in other ways I wouldn't even come close, in what it was like for you growing up without your father.

I was wondering if you had done any goof stuff before your 'episode', the reason for goofy stuff is I didn't know what things were called growing up. It's something I never talked about, learnt that pretty early on, tell people what they want to hear, not, what they don't want to hear, makes life far easier.

It wasn't something people would talk about and the internet didn't come along till I was 40 and then it was gaming, so I didn't really start looking till about 6 months or so before someone took me on a ride, my better half.

And the same here, they are more subtle. The thing is we still do feel them. This is one of things that was drum into me, to "feel"., among other things.
My better half is good at that, whack, pay attention.

One thing I have found that has changed is in the messages that come over, some you can take at face value, others it's the message behind what been shown or it can be in the surrounding area. If anything they have become stronger.

As for me married no kids, don't think my wife could handle another one, ones enough.

Did you know only 5 more weeks till Christmas

Good morning Muffin.

Thank you.

Not sure what you want to hear. I've always felt as though there were two of us 'in here', as a scifi book title put it - "A Stranger in a Strange Land." I've never felt of this world, always more 'in it' than 'of it'. It's not always easy walking two Paths at the same time. My whole damned Life was goofy both inside and out but I wouldn't change a thing. Short trousers and snotty nose, and even on good days every hair on my head at right angles to the next. A manifestation of what was inside. I learned quickly that there are things people didn't want to hear or couldn't cope with, that on the surface things looked one way but energetically something different was happening.

Strangely enough the messages have stopped but then my perceptions have changed and I don't feel so much at odds with my surroundings. There are things that I just know and the synchronicities are far more 'solid' than they once were. They're less of a mystery and more of an 'always was'.

Yeah I know Christmas is coming, can't stick my tail out of the door but it's in my face. And Mrs G wants me in the loft today for the decorations. Deep deep joy and good will to all men.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

We look at everywhere except where the answers lie - inside ourselves. You are the answer looking for the question and this is a Journey to Self. Perhaps Spirituality has it all wrong, many look at the Universe through the lens of Spirituality but is not the whole Universe and everything in it not Spiritual?

Self is not complicated, Self is simply a lot of uncomplicated all in one place. How you move your muscles to type this might seem as complicated but really it's a series of flexing and relaxing of muscles. Like breathing. The energy just is and your self perceives it in the moment, where it comes from and where it goes belongs to another place and time. But really, what is important? Is it important that you understand your perceptions in this way using those words, or is it enough to perceive yourself as a part of something greater than yourself?

"Life, indeed, is like one of those lava lamps.
Turn the Light on, ramp up the heat
And things just kinda gloops around a bit like gloopy stuff does."
Greenslade
The Two Te Ching for the Modern Day

In a silly mood right now but there's something a little more serious behind it. Once upon a time my Spiritual environment was much more forgiving, people didn't seem to mind a more poetic or exploratory Spirituality. Today it's much more serious.

If there is no distinction between the experiencer and the experienced what does that say about us when we label this experience as 'negative' or 'toxic'? Or we integrate and renounce?

The question is, what is the question?

Hi Greenslade,

Hope all is well.

To be or not to be; What was the question?

It strikes me as being a bit of a round about in some manners. To find oneself and then lose oneself in the sense one is not the self and in this finding the true self. Still self seems there.

Some speak of unity, then seperation what is of.... and not of another. Everything is Spiritual if one views or sense it as such. Even if one does not, does this make it not so?

What leaves the body when it gives up this life? What is it that is sensed beyond the common five senses? What is that energy? Questions asked and simply allowing myself to feel it, the questions fade into a curiosity. The burden to know is lifted from the shoulders and an awareness happens.

Even if it is known, then what? Still have to live this life. Sure could sit naked in mediation and renounce all worldly ways, but not inclined to do so. Besides the society I live in frowns upon such.

I find and finding that is the ticket, not to be so serious with it all. I say; God must have a sense of humors for it made us. Not to mention the platypus.

So, having a little fun with this.

What other creature/being spends it time renouncing itself? Wondering why it is here? Perhaps that some of the conundrum, enough humans have lost touch with being of nature and in the process lost touch with ourselves.

Logic says something must have started this. We explore this in many ways, just left with more questions, changing answers. Forgetting in the mad search or overlooking all that is happening now. Busy one upping each other in some ways and overlooking what each gives and has to give.

Some so busy yapping, that some simply don't listen, truly listen. Yet all this gets intertwined in the experience of living. The old philosophical question comes to mind; If a tree falls in the woods......think you know the rest. Yet all this life has been going on long before humans came on the scene. My guess is it will go long after humans move on.

In and of itself seems nothing is renounced. It all intregrates and does it thing.
Questions may come and go. Perspectives may change. Yes, like a lava lamp, just gloops around, lol.

Things will fade, form, reform, and and all the rest. What one realizes, notices, or just observes seems to blend into mix. Suppose what to do or not is the choice given.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'm good thanks, 7L. How the devil are you?

This time of year hasn't always been the best in many ways but this year isn't so bad somehow.

I was in one of those training sessions at work and they started with a little warm-up exercise. The trainer gave us plastic pieces one by one, the goal was to create a pattern with them. I've yet to make one out of that particular session but I learned about myself. I'm a lateral thinker, they tend not to create patterns too quickly and often change the patterns just to incorporate another piece of information. Column thinkers create patterns very quickly and accept or reject new information based on those patterns. Without the body and its functions how would our Spirituality fare?

"Every aspect of our being." How our minds work is an important part of our Spirituality as is our emotional states but they're seldom talked about in these forums. Yes I understand it's a Spiritual forum but isn't our state of mind and being as much parts of our Spirituality?


"Who is wise and understanding among you? Show by your good Life that your words are done with gentleness born of wisdom.
The Spiritual Life and the world of the everyday are not split apart in the message of Jesus."
Marcus J. Borg
Meeting Jesus again for the first time.

I came across that quote in around 2000 or so and wrote in a notebook that's sitting not a couple of feet from me, very much a reference to the triple burner and very much in line with what's happening around me at the moment.

Thank you, for being you.

Hey there Greenslade How the devil am I? A bit cold and trying to thicken up my blood for the season, dammit, LOL.

Yes...I completely agree mind and state of mind is important. Equanimity is always what comes to mind (no pun intended) here. I find my deepest heart is guarded ever more these days by the gateway and gatekeeper of equanimity and balance. Unless one comes to that gate in the fullness of equanimity and lovingkindness, we are having a respectful yet guarded exchange, comprende? And rather sadly, very few do when they are sizing you up socially and they see you largely as prey.

On the other hand, from the vantage of equanimity, you are beyond caring about a large range of stuff, which is a blessing. You care on principle and of course you care for the welfare of others, but beyond these universals, much personal emotion simply does not rise to the fore until and unless you are met in that place of equanimity and true respect. And you realise ever more how this personal exchange of lovingkindness, whether in word or deed or both, is the only real reason we are here. And the only real thing in this place that resonates with the authentic love we are at centre.

This is beautiful...

"Who is wise and understanding among you? Show by your good Life that your words are done with gentleness born of wisdom.
The Spiritual Life and the world of the everyday are not split apart in the message of Jesus."

I completely agree. This really resonates with me...thanks for sharing
I have had to deal with several really harsh and nasty instances of others dumping or venting on me with a very explicit lack of lovingkindness or my highest good. Some very recently (LOL as you said, not a good time), some over many years...some since childhoold. Just above and beyond acts and words of cruelty, by design, with no other intent that to break me. Whilst asking for nothing but my right to my own existence and my own opinions.

The primacy of lovingkindness in our treatment of one another has come to be more important to me than nearly anything else, and of course I include social justice as a key form of lovingkindness, along with care of the environment. But first & foremost, it is about how we treat those in our lives. Right behind that is the primacy of my own right to be, of my right to my own truth and to define myself for myself. 1) The importance of being and doing lovingkindness in word and deed to self and to others equally ...standing against cruelty, violence, and apathy. And 2) my right to autonomy and agency, to say for myself who I am and what I think and feel. To stand against control, oppression, and narcissism...all the usual anti-democratic suspects that revile the individual and the inherent worth of every sentient being.

I think that shift you mentioned is affecting everyone. I know that I simply cannot be around those now who do not relate to me in respectful, courteous, and kind ways unless I am silent or have no opinion of my own or commit to pimping myself and bootlicking others as full-time occupations. I stand for my position and do them the honour of a thoughtful and honest reply...but if they repeatedly bludgeon me with hostility, cruelty, and disrespect (this is actually pretty common if you are a thoughtful intelligent person who may disagree with others and their "mainstream" positions, no matter how courteous you are)...then we're done.

I am finding the strength to draw boundaries that I and so many women were afraid to do before...like just saying "don't call" instead of just ghosting to avoid the anger and hostility directed toward you, particularly to avoid the hostile male coming out of the woodwork and coming after you. I'm now simply saying, no, you're not allowed to give me orders (I mean, seriously) or tell me who I am, how I feel, or what I think. You're not allowed to label me...you don't know me. I get to define who I am. Stuff I ignored before, or dealt with in other ways, I am simply putting back on whomever (kindly but firmly) so I can likewise deal with my share and my own call to lovingkindness. Not my problem (so to speak)...ahhh, freedom

This is one of the "hidden" yet quite obvious meaning of liberation, eh?...it's liberating, hahaha!

Peace & blessings amigo & thanks for being you too
7L