My beginner level questions on non-duality

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by ayar415

QUOTE Post 27 EXCERPT:

It's ok to give a different face. But why give a body with no legs or parents who are homeless beggars?

Probably for following reasons .

1. When one suffers through disabilities or injustice , he/she is not alone . God also is with him/her in his/her sufferings .He too shares the pain .He may just want to know how does his creations works /feels through apparent disabilities and injustice in His passion to seek varied myriad experiences .

2. God may want to show vast majority like us how blessed we are with his countless free yet very priceless gifts and may want us to lead a grateful life full of appreciation and care for others and without any complaints/regrets with cheery smile on our face. If we are compassionate enough , we can really feel the love of God through His free yet most invaluable gifts of life.

3. To demonstrate the principle of Karma / before life / after life / re-incarnation and exhort people to do good and be good at the core.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Nevertheless if believing this makes u happy so be it .

I believe the BBC who broadcast the documentary and science. And my own experiences.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'm not even dismissing the OPs concern(s). From an anthropomorphic perspective it can be a very disturbing concept.

My advice is take it slow and start at the beginning. There's tons of high quality introductory material available, both text and video.

I certainly did not take your post as being dismissive of the OP's concern. From an anthropomorphic perspective, the concept of "aloneness" can indeed be "a very disturbing concept". Even from the perspective of ONE who has JUST realized the implications of non-duality, it can be very disturbing to realize the "aloneness" as Reality.

My conscious sleep meditations...during which I could watch dream formation from start to finish ...helped me a lot in getting over this concern as I realized how much I initially enjoyed the lucid dreaming process albeit being the only ONE involved (obviously) despite apparent "others". Of course, as mundane dreams eventually subside during the purification process, one moves on to the "next level" and enjoys that ..........

As you duly noted, there are many ways to address that "aloneness" concern. What I wrote was just the first way that came to mind for me personally.

NOTE: What also came to mind was a quote attributed to Lord Jesus: At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children" (Matthew 11:25). This understanding can easily escape the "learned and the wise" intellectuals who can discuss non-duality quite articulately but don't really know. I can attest to that personally because I was very intellectually-challenged once before my teacher got me past that anthropomorphic intellectualism. PRACTICE! Be still and KNOW!

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 31 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Probably for following reasons .

Ok, you are guessing, and that's fine. Only fools know for sure what is in God's mind. What then is spirituality? Is it a pre-occupation with guessing why God is doing this and doing that?

But in 1, 2 and 3, you are not guessing. You are casting forth your guesses like seeds to be sown on fertile ground. Let's review your guesses.

1. What kind of maniac would want to know how a dog would survive if its legs are broken?

2. I have countless free gifts from God. I appreciate them and that's for sure but I don't feel the love of God. I just feel very lucky that I was not chosen to suffer like a captive prisoner of war selected by the celestial commander for torture.

3. Karma is a horrid excuse for the upper castes to subjugate others in the lower castes.

Hinduism. There is a need to discover what the ancients knew. India is magical, if one can see through the muck.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by ayar415

Only fools know for sure what is in God's mind.

If I'm not wrong - you believe in some Biblical things.
Why do you think He said to, or thru, Jeremiah ...
but he who does boast, let him boast of this, that he knows and understands me...so saith the Lord.
In Ch 9..in the 20s....just asking for a comment of any sort.
I would accept you don't believe that or He never said that, even.

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 35 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

If I'm not wrong - you believe in some Biblical things.

I don't believe in anything, Miss Hepburn. I do reflect on any religious scripture if it speaks to me. With regard to the Bible, only the words purportedly uttered by Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels, are meaningful, in my opinion. The entity of Jesus, either as God or man, is of no interest to me.

I did say "Only fools know for sure what is in God's mind". Let me qualify that to avoid misunderstanding. I was speaking to myself and not casting aspersions on anyone who "has a relationship with God".

To me, God is a word that has no meaning yet.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I certainly did not take your post as being dismissive of the OP's concern. From an anthropomorphic perspective, the concept of "aloneness" can indeed be "a very disturbing concept". Even from the perspective of ONE who has JUST realized the implications of non-duality, it can be very disturbing to realize the "aloneness" as Reality.

Yup, I included that disclaimer for the benefit of the OP and because I didn't on my first post and should have.

Hmm, how to put this... Okay, trying to conceptualize that level of aloneness is one thing but it still has that anthropomorphic taste, if you know what I mean. The reality is we can't even begin to conceptualize that absolute state of being minus Maya and I think that has the potential to be terrifying because it seems like the same thing as mortal death. We are so invested in body, mind, individuation and personality it's hard to get past. That level of acceptance, surrender, letting go is not in our conditioned nature and does take work.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by ayar415

QUOTE Post 31 EXCERPT:


Ok, you are guessing, and that's fine. Only fools know for sure what is in God's mind.

True, individual souls can not know what's in God's mind .

Originally Posted by ayar415

What then is spirituality? Is it a pre-occupation with guessing why God is doing this and doing that?

It is many things . Now that your are spiritual seeker , u may discover more about God/spirituality.

Originally Posted by ayar415

But in 1, 2 and 3, you are not guessing. You are casting forth your guesses like seeds to be sown on fertile ground. Let's review your guesses.

1. What kind of maniac would want to know how a dog would survive if its legs are broken? - Whatever one says , HE STILL feels the pain along with the injured /handicapped .

2. I have countless free gifts from God. I appreciate them and that's for sure - You are better than me . I was not able to even recognize the gifts as gifts and in fact regarded it as my birth right and even bragged . I think I am not alone in this world .There are many like me who needs more evidence of His love.

3. Karma is a horrid excuse for the upper castes to subjugate others in the lower castes.

Karma is not just Hindu law. In his Christian New Testament Epistle to the Galatians, Paul the Apostle writes: “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”

As regards caste system - Indeed the so called upper caste Hindus perpetuated false superiority over others for almost 1200 till the beginning of 20th century . Now in 21st century the govt and constitution of India does not even support it. And above all people dont even need false arbitrary superiority / inferiority .So that stigma is substantially a matter of past and certainly staunch progressive religious minded people also dont want it in future for right reasons .

Now the careful study of Hinduism and the progress they made earlier beyond last aggressions of foreigners was caste system only - A system of equality and context based leadership among all principal occupation types with

Greater specialization

Greater Excellence orientation

finally greater service orientation & co-operation

Later day brahmin with poor study of their own literature and vested interests combined with political slavery , poverty and illiteracy , they exploited the word "Shudra" - meaning service oriented professionals like gold smith , ironsmith , wood cutter , architects ,accountants etc as "Kshudra" meaning mean ,low and hence untouchable . There are no accounts of low /untouchables in original scriptures .

And if you see stories of success or failures world over , you would see what are the underlying factors of success . Only those who have handled differences/division of labor/specialization with equality focus and greater service /excellence orientation have only succeeded and any deficiency has led to grand failures also.

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 38 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

And if you see stories of success or failures world over , you would see what are the underlying factors of success . Only those who have handled differences/division of labor/specialization with equality focus and greater service /excellence orientation have only succeeded and any deficiency has led to grand failures also.

I wish you would drop all pretenses and talk to me man to man. No caste system to separate us, right? Then, stop coming on like a Hindu expert dealing with an American dud on the finer points of modern progressive India.

Non duality is the topic. What is it to you, and what is its spiritual relevance?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by ayar415

QUOTE Post 38 EXCERPT:I wish you would drop all pretenses and talk to me man to man. No caste system to separate us, right? Then, stop coming on like a Hindu expert dealing with an American dud on the finer points of modern progressive India.

Non duality is the topic. What is it to you, and what is its spiritual relevance?

I think we have digressed from op a lot. So more abt pretense later in some other thread.