vibhava-tanha (craving for non-existence)

[Imzadi]

This term is relatively new to me and one that I had not encountered before even though I was somewhat familiar with rudimentary Buddhist teachings. The more obvious cravings and suffering that I could relate to had been that of cravings for existence and sensory experiences. I hadn't realize that my years of suicidal ideation and depression could be very much a result from a desire of non-existence. In fact, I was deluded to think that my attachment to non-existence was almost noble and honorable in the sense that I reject material and worldly illusions. I hadn't realize then that I had essentially substituted one delusion for another. In my obsession for non-existence, I had created an unhealthy and simplistic image and attachment for some sort of conceptualized bliss that is outside of the world and my PTSD mind imagines that physical death is synonymous to non-existence. In turn, I also deluded myself to believe that non existence is liberation. Suffice to say, I can see now the distortion of my illogical perception that had fettered my heart for so long. I would like to seek your wisdom and understanding on this topic if you would be so kind.

What are your thoughts on vibhava-tanha? Have you experienced this before? Thank you.

[jonesboy]

Thank you for being so open and honest.

Very brave of you.

I have found it is that desire that holds one back from it.

The desire for silence or a sensory experience will always keep it out of reach.

Once you let go of it.. you find it...

[Jeremy Bong]

Imzadi,

I see your case has two possibilities:
1) Is influenced by a bad god or ghost.
2) you are willing to donate your spiritual body/energy to the evil.

Of course the first one and the second one are related with each other. There's no way a guy keeping a concept of nonexistent in that matter. An ant never give up existence priority then why then you are a human. You have a better wisdom than an ant.

The second chance is after death, the alien,devil, bad god....are waiting to suck any death as "spirit food". And even though you are not sucked by them there is possible that in a very bad shape but not perishable in the spiritual realm. So friend think carefully before someone like to do it..... Life is precious....live happily as you can....

[sky]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

This term is relatively new to me and one that I had not encountered before even though I was somewhat familiar with rudimentary Buddhist teachings. The more obvious cravings and suffering that I could relate to had been that of cravings for existence and sensory experiences. I hadn't realize that my years of suicidal ideation and depression could be very much a result from a desire of non-existence. In fact, I was deluded to think that my attachment to non-existence was almost noble and honorable in the sense that I reject material and worldly illusions. I hadn't realize then that I had essentially substituted one delusion for another. In my obsession foor non-existence, I had created an unhealthy and simplistic image and attachment for some sort of conceptualized bliss that is outside of the world and my PTSD mind imagines that physical death is synonymous to non-existence. In turn, I also deluded myself to believe that non existence is liberation. Suffice to say, I can see now the distortion of my illogical perception that had fettered my heart for so long. I would like to seek your wisdom and understanding on this topic if you would be so kind.

What are your thoughts on vibhava-tanha? Have you experienced this before? Thank you.

I have never felt like this so I cannot give much insight but I can understand why you felt like this. You were suffering and couldn't see anyway out of your misery.
If you believe in rebirth then you will understand that to commit suicide is not the answer so you then have to look for other ways to alleviate your suffering. Professional/Medical help is the first place I would try.
The Buddha said there are three kinds of ' Tanha ' (Cravings ) that we repeatedly experience but don't always notice because they arise and are preempted by another and then another. Because you are feeling so down and depressed it must be hard to climb out of the hole you are in and to see things as they really are, it is just a craving and you can get through this with some help, nothing last forever, everything is in constant flux.
Hope you can find peace of mind

[TarunP]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

This term is relatively new to me and one that I had not encountered before even though I was somewhat familiar with rudimentary Buddhist teachings. The more obvious cravings and suffering that I could relate to had been that of cravings for existence and sensory experiences. I hadn't realize that my years of suicidal ideation and depression could be very much a result from a desire of non-existence. In fact, I was deluded to think that my attachment to non-existence was almost noble and honorable in the sense that I reject material and worldly illusions. I hadn't realize then that I had essentially substituted one delusion for another. In my obsession for non-existence, I had created an unhealthy and simplistic image and attachment for some sort of conceptualized bliss that is outside of the world and my PTSD mind imagines that physical death is synonymous to non-existence. In turn, I also deluded myself to believe that non existence is liberation. Suffice to say, I can see now the distortion of my illogical perception that had fettered my heart for so long. I would like to seek your wisdom and understanding on this topic if you would be so kind.

What are your thoughts on vibhava-tanha? Have you experienced this before? Thank you.

Seems like you have arisen over many beliefs. It is very good. Beliefs cause suffering, not really useful :).

Now some philosophy. There is not existence and there is not non-existence.

Is that a puzzle? Yes, to our minds it is. Because it is our limited mind that makes up such ideas about what there is. Once you get an idea and hold on to it, taking it as "truth", it becomes a belief and stops all further progress.

[Imzadi]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Thank you for being so open and honest.

Very brave of you.

I have found it is that desire that holds one back from it.

The desire for silence or a sensory experience will always keep it out of reach.

Once you let go of it.. you find it...

I found what you said simple and yet refreshingly enlightening. So much emphasis and analyzing for me has been the object of the desire/craving. When I take a step back and place mindful awareness on the desire itself without contemplating on the meaning/ideology of the object, then understanding and liberation naturally arises. How fascinating.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

This term is relatively new to me and one that I had not encountered before even though I was somewhat familiar with rudimentary Buddhist teachings. The more obvious cravings and suffering that I could relate to had been that of cravings for existence and sensory experiences. I hadn't realize that my years of suicidal ideation and depression could be very much a result from a desire of non-existence. In fact, I was deluded to think that my attachment to non-existence was almost noble and honorable in the sense that I reject material and worldly illusions. I hadn't realize then that I had essentially substituted one delusion for another. In my obsession for non-existence, I had created an unhealthy and simplistic image and attachment for some sort of conceptualized bliss that is outside of the world and my PTSD mind imagines that physical death is synonymous to non-existence. In turn, I also deluded myself to believe that non existence is liberation. Suffice to say, I can see now the distortion of my illogical perception that had fettered my heart for so long. I would like to seek your wisdom and understanding on this topic if you would be so kind.

What are your thoughts on vibhava-tanha? Have you experienced this before? Thank you.

I have a few long term "depression sufferer" friends, who believed that non existence was their freedom and way out, so I understand through the view they showed me. What I viewed in not being this way, was that the more they held onto this desire the worse their life became. And in my own unfolding to know how it could be in me to let go of all beliefs and just be open to life, I did learn to see that it was actually the desire for a more complete existence in this body here and now that they were rejecting but on some level wanting, but wanting it their way. Life was showing them other ways and often they didn't like being shown, because holding onto that firm belief of rejecting the material world had to end to change their thinking and feelings.

[Imzadi]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I have a few long term "depression sufferer" friends, who believed that non existence was their freedom and way out, so I understand through the view they showed me. What I viewed in not being this way, was that the more they held onto this desire the worse their life became. And in my own unfolding to know how it could be in me to let go of all beliefs and just be open to life, I did learn to see that it was actually the desire for a more complete existence in this body here and now that they were rejecting but on some level wanting, but wanting it their way. Life was showing them other ways and often they didn't like being shown, because holding onto that firm belief of rejecting the material world had to end to change their thinking and feelings.

Yes I believe you are correct in your observation that the preoccupation of non-existence, its ideology/beliefs can be quite intoxicating and the longer a depression sufferer perpetuate the distorted thinking, the more challenging their path becomes.

More over, from personal experiences, I agree also in your point that underneath the vibhava-tanha, is the powerful draw for wholeness, peace, and spiritual liberation that can only be actualized once all three types of tanha are dropped. Unfortunately, the mind and the ego is tricky and in the case of suicidal depression sufferers, not understanding spiritual and philosophical nature of suffering can lead to them erroneously seeing physical death to be the cessation of their suffering.

An interesting side note: watching the movie "What Dreams May Come" starring Robin Williams when I was a little kid saved my life many times over in that it began to spark within me the realization that spiritual suffering cannot be alleviated by death. There is also a Buddhist alternative ending that gives a glimpse on reincarnation. I highly recommend this movie for anyone who has been touched by depression/suicide in one form or another.



RIP Mr. Williams <3