Observer vs Observed

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

It was pathetic in the sense that your reply was much like a 12 year old girl stomping her foot and not wanting to walk any further because she didn't get the toy at the store she wanted in other words there is very little intelligence behind it and if the conversation we're to continue down that path eventually we would end up sticking our tongues out at each other and saying "you're stupid know you're stupid"

It's easy to take anything that anybody says and turn it around and say "well that's just your opinion" well obviously it's my opinion but I'm not here to just take what anybody says and say it's your opinion you're wrong I'm right nana nana boo boo because I'm actually here for philosophical discussions that are actually productive Princeton's even this reply is not very productive. But it's clear that you cannot comprehend what I'm trying to explain to you so I will leave it at that there's no point in arguing have a wonderful day.

You replying that I replying with a fact is pathetic is pathetic. And you saying non-duality can't be seen or perceived, when in fact that is not true because non-duality can be seen/perceived is logical and intelligent? Whatever you say. I do not want you to believe anything I tell you. You are able to look inside yourself for the truth. I get it, you do not like what I am saying because you are emotionally attached to your belief of duality, and you are fearful of losing your belief and identity of duality. I get what you are saying, you are saying non-duality is an illusion when I have been telling you duality is the illusion, which the ego creates. If you think I insulted you or your ego, I am sorry, I did not mean to insult you or your ego. The ego is neither good/bad or negative/positive. The ego is just an effect of evolution). I see the emotional game you are playing, you are trying to insult me by comparing me to a 12 year old girl.

https://youtu.be/F_sQBT-cpyA

"...He was further told that he had injured Kali's spiritual growth, which had been following the path of dualistic devotion, by forcing upon the latter some of his own non-dualistic ideas. The Master added, however, that the damage was not serious."

Point being there are more than just one path, and any insistence on a particular belief is in itself ego manifest.

What also seems clear, at least to me, is "normal" humans simply aren't equipped to fully perceive and experience non-dual existence. We might understand, know and even "feel" it at the level of heart and even very strongly, but beyond that it would probably be destructive to our existence in this reality.

It isn't required for awakening/enlightenment.

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

I understand what you are saying however my point being that it is an assumption and not a fact.
In a since its almost like an attempt at quantification for Simplicity by say/ believing all is 1 and to the majority it's a concept that make sense but it is still an assumption

What you are saying is understandable coming from a conceptual grasp of nonduality - but it is missing the very gnosis that the criticism is aimed at. This gnosis is prior to assumptions - assumptions are of the intellect which is where the duality that you are upholding resides. The proof of no-separation is in its present-moment realisation - not in a thought constructed formula.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Moondance

What you are saying is understandable coming from a conceptual grasp of nonduality - but it is missing the very gnosis that the criticism is aimed at. This gnosis is prior to assumptions - assumptions are of the intellect which is where the duality that you are upholding resides. The proof of no-separation is in its present-moment realisation - not in a thought constructed formula.

Very well said Moondance.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

It was pathetic in the sense that your reply was much like a 12 year old girl stomping her foot and not wanting to walk any further because she didn't get the toy at the store she wanted in other words there is very little intelligence behind it and if the conversation we're to continue down that path eventually we would end up sticking our tongues out at each other and saying "you're stupid know you're stupid"

It's easy to take anything that anybody says and turn it around and say "well that's just your opinion" well obviously it's my opinion but I'm not here to just take what anybody says and say it's your opinion you're wrong I'm right nana nana boo boo because I'm actually here for philosophical discussions that are actually productive Princeton's even this reply is not very productive. But it's clear that you cannot comprehend what I'm trying to explain to you so I will leave it at that there's no point in arguing have a wonderful day.

I could care a less about what you believe in the present moment, the right here and now. I am not about whom is right or wrong either. The only thing I care about is being picky and discriminate what beliefs and knowledge you store in your subconscious mind

Originally Posted by MikeS80

You replying that I replying with a fact is pathetic is pathetic. And you saying non-duality can't be seen or perceived, when in fact that is not true because non-duality can be seen/perceived is logical and intelligent? Whatever you say. I do not want you to believe anything I tell you. You are able to look inside yourself for the truth. I get it, you do not like what I am saying because you are emotionally attached to your belief of duality, and you are fearful of losing your belief and identity of duality. I get what you are saying, you are saying non-duality is an illusion when I have been telling you duality is the illusion, which the ego creates. If you think I insulted you or your ego, I am sorry, I did not mean to insult you or your ego. The ego is neither good/bad or negative/positive. The ego is just an effect of evolution). I see the emotional game you are playing, you are trying to insult me by comparing me to a 12 year old girl.

You are proving my point but let's move on with the conversation like big boys shall we? am not holding on to any beliefs in duality that I'm afraid to let go of I am in fact open to other ideas seeing as my entire life has been one of devotion to the spiritual path unlike yours I'm assuming? And I say this to say that I have put in the time and contemplation and self sacrifice that most people these days are not willing to do and while you were probably in the school system being brainwashed I was in the woods in deep meditation and while you were out partying and sleeping around I was fasting and alone . Now I'm not by any means bragging but I am letting you know that I say what I say from a place of knowing that is much different then the average western perspective. But go ahead and continue to try and find some justification for your denial and what I said as you hold to your brainwashing and try to find some way of devaluing what I've said I do not care because this conversation is not going to be productive as long as your mind is closed so I am no longer interested in this thread .

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I could care a less about what you believe in the present moment, the right here and now. I am not about whom is right or wrong either. The only thing I care about is being picky and discriminate what beliefs and knowledge you store in your subconscious mind

You can't even use the knowledge you have to keep from stubbing your toe on the coffee table in the middle of the night so what makes you think you could decipher the knowledge in my subconscious?

[r6r6]

http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synerg...igs/f7310.html

One Sphere{ O } = 4 kinds of duality. See link

..."Spin twoness is additive.

...Duality twoness (concave-convex) is multiplicative.

..The spin twoness and duality twoness together comprise a third relationship twoness.

..The fourth twoness is comprised of the macro-micro (insideness and outsideness) twoness."....


concave >)< convex ergo one cannot exist without the other ergo duality is inherent to all of reality.


Horizontal __ and vertical | are at 90 degrees to each other +


And the beat goes on.....and the list of duality goes on


Non-occupied space >< occupied space is the highest on the heirarchial Cosmic Trinity and Trinity is beyond duality and non-duality. Go figure. I have and the truth is clear to those who search for truth and facts.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

You are proving my point but let's move on with the conversation like big boys shall we? am not holding on to any beliefs in duality that I'm afraid to let go of I am in fact open to other ideas seeing as my entire life has been one of devotion to the spiritual path unlike yours I'm assuming? And I say this to say that I have put in the time and contemplation and self sacrifice that most people these days are not willing to do and while you were probably in the school system being brainwashed I was in the woods in deep meditation and while you were out partying and sleeping around I was fasting and alone . Now I'm not by any means bragging but I am letting you know that I say what I say from a place of knowing that is much different then the average western perspective. But go ahead and continue to try and find some justification for your denial and what I said as you hold to your brainwashing and try to find some way of devaluing what I've said I do not care because this conversation is not going to be productive as long as your mind is closed so I am no longer interested in this thread .

You assume, presume and conceptualize incorrectly in the entire quoted reply of yours and in the reply to me below it. I am ready to talk about this or about anything when you are done being emotional, assuming, presuming and conceptualizing. Everyone's subconscious mind and ego works the same way.

[MikeS80]

[quote=r6r6r]http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synerg...igs/f7310.html

One Sphere{ O } = 4 kinds of duality. See link

..."Spin twoness is additive.

...Duality twoness (concave-convex) is multiplicative.

..The spin twoness and duality twoness together comprise a third relationship twoness.

..The fourth twoness is comprised of the macro-micro (insideness and outsideness) twoness."....


concave >)< convex ergo one cannot exist without the other ergo duality is inherent to all of reality.


Horizontal __ and vertical | are at 90 degrees to each other +


And the beat goes on.....and the list of duality goes on


Non-occupied space >< occupied space is the highest on the heirarchial Cosmic Trinity and Trinity is beyond duality and non-duality. Go figure. I have and the truth is clear to those who search for truth and facts.



[/QUOT
Male and female-the ying and the yang is duality too