A material understanding of the spiritual

[shivatar]

This is my understanding as it relates to spiritual virtues and morals. It is also my understanding of the term karma.

My belief is that human identity takes place through "filling in the gaps". Doing a good deed gives is a good impression of self, declining to do it gives us an apathetic view of self. Meaning my understanding of karma is there is no crossover from a past life, every good deed is rewarded in this life through a favorable view of self. negative deeds are also "cashed in" during this life through either an apathetic or negative view of self.

I don't think we have knowledge of our self, i think it is built through the lives we live. I think we are constantly finding our self, which is constantly being revealed through many mechanisms. memories as some call them.

the self we are at death is not the self we were at birth, it could be we are simply existing in a limited portion of our universal self, therefore we have not become something new but simply a new configuration of what we were. We have a new self, but it is not new in the sense of absolutely new, it is simply a new configuration. After an untold amount of new configurations we tire and desire to be all that we are, we choose to not live again but to exist as everything, with everything.

Every action we take, every second, we are finding our self, every action including inaction lends itself to self-discovery. Eventually culminating with the discovery that we are everything, at which point we don't need to experience a new configuration (rebirth).

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When we go above and beyond what we believe is rational, the only answer could be that it's us, our soul, that has allowed us to surpass all we've known.

because what we believe is rational comes from cultural knowledge, going above and beyond is a subjective experience.

If I once believed everything I do is rational, I would not see myself as growing. If I came to believe nothing I do is rational, and it's all a spontaneous urge of my deeper self, I would believe it's all an expression of my inner self and I would feel growth.

In this way we can change how we experience the development of self. But we can never change the way the mechanisms work, we can only change our sense of self in relation to them. For some they "realize there is no self", some realize "I am the center of all things, all things exist within me".

New selves can be created through changing our beliefs, which are malleable once we understand them. But can we ever become more than our unlimited self, no i don't believe so, I think that comes after death only. Only a new configuration can be born, or reborn as some call it when it happens during the middle of a life instead of the beginning (birth).

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if I believe my self to be altruistic, doing altruistic deeds is not self-revealing. If I believe nothing and desire altruism, the only explanation is me beyond my beliefs, my true self, is what desires altruism.

the things we do that go beyond reason are the ultimate expressions of self. If life tells me to be angry, and I choose something else, then that is me choosing. It is me expressing my deepest sense of self, and I know its me because it goes beyond all rational explanations.

When I'm expressing my deepest self I am also realizing it as it's being expressed. I can choose more actions in line with this new learned sense of self, or I can come to have a new understanding of self by future spontaneous urges.
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It's beyond the rational that we find our self, which extends beyond human rationality and is in the realm of heavenly rationality. Everything makes sense to God, not everything makes sense to humans.

When we do things that have no meaning, we realize (we find our self) it must have been us in the truest sense.

[shivatar]

I feel like I have tried to explain everything and have succeeded in explaining nothing. haha.

it's the thought that matters eh?

[FallingLeaves]

the problem is I am very vain, and it is very easy for me to paint a rosy picture of myself despite whatever the truth of the matter may be.

[Shivani Devi]

As far as I can tell, Karma only applies to this existence.

How can a soul store memory? It may be able to, but we don't remember it anyway. Sure, we may hear certain stories of children recalling 'past lives' but how true is it? I mean, the majority of us don't remember.

That puts us at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to learning lessons this lifetime that are 'carried over' from past lives.

Still, all hope is not lost - if the goal of life is self-realisation, or getting off the 'wheel of Karma' or just making sure you never come back, then any lifetime should comprise methods and ways of achieving it, or at least die trying - so that in the next lifetime one already has a 'head start' even if they don't remember it.

It's a win/win scenario, regardless of belief.

[kris]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

As far as I can tell, Karma only applies to this existence.

How can a soul store memory? It may be able to, but we don't remember it anyway. Sure, we may hear certain stories of children recalling 'past lives' but how true is it? I mean, the majority of us don't remember.

That puts us at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to learning lessons this lifetime that are 'carried over' from past lives.

Still, all hope is not lost - if the goal of life is self-realisation, or getting off the 'wheel of Karma' or just making sure you never come back, then any lifetime should comprise methods and ways of achieving it, or at least die trying - so that in the next lifetime one already has a 'head start' even if they don't remember it.

It's a win/win scenario, regardless of belief.

Rebirth

[shivatar]

I was thinking more about this thread and what I was trying to explain is not a new thing or spiritual teaching, but something like a supplementary teaching that affirms what teachers of old have said.


I tried to explain the why, to why we should do good things like altruism and concentration/meditation.
I think there is enough "what to do" in the teachings of those who have gone before me, I think people just need a reminder of why to do those things that don't make much rational sense. Understanding of how identity works is meant to be a gift that reinforces all the right things to do, without expecting a reward in the afterlife.