Transcending Duality

[Hong-Sau]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Duality isn't the perfection because you're missing the most important part of the whole process - consciousness. Existence is a trinity and it's 'designed' to expand - expand not raise - our consciousness if you want to think in relativistic terms. Sorry guys but it doesn't get any simpler. There is the light and there is the dark, and yes you know one when you know the other... but also! Your consciousness has expanded because you understand which is which, you know how they interact and why they are there. Another trinity in itself.

All things exist in relation to something else - perfection only exists in relation to imperfect and whichever one is which comes down to the chooser.

So if you choose something to be imperfect and the other to be perfect (this is all an illusion created by your ego) there is duality however if you don't there you go perfection and exactly expand your consciousness in order to open yourself to that ah-ah moment so you can grasp the concept and understand that your imperfection is your perfection (everything is what you label it in the vision of your limited ego). So imperfection exists only when you create it for yourself (ego).

Originally Posted by Maguru

My understanding of ego is lack of self-awareness and ego comes into awareness through duality. I also understand that self-awareness deals with internal judging, hating, blaming etc. and when they are no longer present within oneself, they are no longer projected onto others. A deeper understanding of each other is attained.

Okay so why are you exactly telling me this?

Haven't you people heard of insight meditation, noting? Why is it so hard to understand that duality must be and it's perfect by itself as everything else in nature.

Originally Posted by Hong-Sau

So if you choose something to be imperfect and the other to be perfect (this is all an illusion created by your ego) there is duality however if you don't there you go perfection and exactly expand your consciousness in order to open yourself to that ah-ah moment so you can grasp the concept and understand that your imperfection is your perfection (everything is what you label it in the vision of your limited ego). So imperfection exists only when you create it for yourself (ego).

Everything exists in relation to something else and what is perfect for you is imperfect for someone else. It's a definition and when you define perfect you also define imperfect - perfect doesn't exist on its own, it's not a thing. Your ah-ha moment is when you come to the realisation that your imperfections make you perfect, the realisation being the third of the trinity. Most people think in opposites, they don't put them into an interaction to 'produce' consciousness. Other than that you can drop the whole perfect/imperfect bit and say that you are just the way you are, which is closer to the Universe itself because the Universe simply allows.

[Hong-Sau]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Everything exists in relation to something else and what is perfect for you is imperfect for someone else. It's a definition and when you define perfect you also define imperfect - perfect doesn't exist on its own, it's not a thing. Your ah-ha moment is when you come to the realisation that your imperfections make you perfect, the realisation being the third of the trinity. Most people think in opposites, they don't put them into an interaction to 'produce' consciousness. Other than that you can drop the whole perfect/imperfect bit and say that you are just the way you are, which is closer to the Universe itself because the Universe simply allows.

And that is what I meant since my first post remove the definitions of perfect and imperfect (set by your ego) that's when you see everything is perfect (the framework if you will of things the place/time where/when you experience and don't label). That is your last sentence in other words.

Here is a good book that might benefit all of I.

https://www.google.bg/url?sa=t&rct=j...urQQ&cad=r ja

A quick quote from the book.

I thought it would be fun to envision the Three Trainings as
characters and have them critique each other and then talk with each
other about ways that they could reinforce each other. I will do this in
the form of a short play in one act. While I will exaggerate and
dichotomize their issues with each other for comic effect, I do think that
each of the points made has some validity. Hopefully, you will see
through the humor to the important points being illustrated.
Curtain opens. Morality, Concentration and Insight are sitting in a
bar having a discussion. A large stack of empty shot glasses sits in front
of each character.
Morality: You navel gazing, self-absorbed, good-for-nothing freaks! I
go out and work hard all day long to make this world fit to live in while
you two sit on those sweat covered cushions and cultivate butt-rot! I go
out and make good money, keep food in our mouths, a roof over our
heads, deal with our stuff, and you go out and spend our money up at
that freak-house you call a meditation center when there is important
work to be done! I want to work on my tan!
Insight: Who are you calling “self-absorbed?” I can’t be self
absorbed by definition! If it wasn’t for me, you would be so stuck in
dualistic illusion that you wouldn’t know your *** from your elbow, you
conceptually fixated, emotionally mired, bound-up-in-manifestationlooking,
twelve sandwich eating…
Concentration: Yeah! And by the way, Mr. Oh-so-worldly, you
should learn to lighten up sometimes! Work your fingers to the bone,
whaddaya get? Bony fingers. That’s what. And that goes for you too,
Mr. Enlightenment! If you didn’t have my skills, you’d be **** out of
luck, unable to focus, and dead boring to boot! Who brings up the deep
joy and wondrous mind states around here? I do, that’s who, so you two
should just shut up!
Insight: Oh, yeah? Well, Mr. La-la Land, if it weren’t for me, we’d
be so caught up in your transient highs that we might just get arrested.
Somebody call the law! You two are so easily sucked into blowing things
out of proportion that without me you two would have all the
perspective of a dung heap!
Morality: Dung heap? You’d be lucky to have a dung heap if it
wasn’t for me, you emptiness-fixated, I’m-oh-so-non-conceptual
vibration-junkie. What good is having perspective if you don’t go out
and use it?
Concentration: Yeah! And speaking of perspective, I give you guys
more perspective than you have any idea of. Not only do I provide a
bridge between our resident Save-the-world Poster Child and the Voidfixated
Flicker-boy, I help you two get your twitchy little minds right! I
help the Boy Scout here gain more and deeper insights into his screwed
up emotional world and “stuff” than he ever could have on his own, and
if it wasn’t for me, Mr. Ultimate would just be spinning his wheels in the
parking lot! And further more, I am fun, fun, fun!
Insight: Yeah, maybe, but you don’t know when to stop, you
otherworldly space-case! If Relative Man and I hadn’t pulled you out of
the clouds, you’d still be lost in some formless realm thinking you had
half a clue. I’m the one with the clue! There ain’t nothin’ in the world
like what I know, and without it, you two’s whole pathetic little sense of
identity would be bound up in a world beyond your control. I am your
salvation, and you know it!
Morality: Beyond my control my ***! I make things happen in this
world, great things! I’m the one that really gets us somewhere! I make a
difference! Who cares if there is no self when people are starving in
Africa?
Insight: Who cares is exactly my point! There is no separate,
permanent self that cares!
Morality: “I know you are, but what am I?”
Insight: Exactly!
Morality: Jerk!
Concentration: See? You guys gotta' chill out, get some balance and
peace in your life. Take a few moments and just breathe! Leave your
worries and cares behind, and fly the friendly skies! It’s free, legal, and
oh-so-recommended. You can quit whenever you like! All your friends
are doing it! Come on, just relax!
Morality: All right, Fly Guy, when are we going to deal with our
emotional issues, huh? When are we going to save the world? We can’t
just go on vacation forever.
Insight: Your problem is that you can’t see the sensations that make
up these “issues” as they really are, so you make such a big friggin’ deal
out of them. I mean, I see your point, but you are so reactive and blind
that you are hardly the one for the job. You solidify these things into
huge monsters, forget you have done this, and then freak out when they
come running after you. You need a clue, you confused little shrew!
Morality: Oh, yeah! Don’t think that just because you can see the
true nature of the issues that make up your reality that you won’t still
have stuff to deal with! Now, that’s delusion!
Insight: It’s even more deluded to think that you can really have a
completely healthy perspective on anything without me, you Monster
Maker!
Concentration: Dude, do you see those angels floating through the
wall?
Morality: Where in the Hell did I find you freaks?
Insight: Short memory, eh? You found us when you realized you
couldn’t do it on your own. You needed us to really be able to do the
job you wanted to do, to really make a difference and be as happy and
effective as you could be.
Morality: Yeah? And when can I get rid of you?
Concentration and Insight: When you have mastered us completely.
Jinx, one two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten!
Morality: Bartender…
THE END.

[Shanti Shanti]

Originally Posted by Maguru

The truth is subjective and I believe your 'truth' of how you perceive duality and non-duality are opposed to my 'truth'' of what they represent. There it is, duality in action. If we could have two identical perceptions, that would be non-duality but I don't think it has ever happened.

In reply to Madguru I would say the Truth is the Truth it is not mine, yours or anyones it is the Truth it shines by its own light. You can't visualise it, discuss it, as it is as it is, beyond time space and our minds. Hence why I think we can't come to an adequate answer to duality / non-duality discussion, because of the hidden Truth that we are subconsciously aware but can't describe it. Hope that make sense.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Hong-Sau

So if you choose something to be imperfect and the other to be perfect (this is all an illusion created by your ego) there is duality however if you don't there you go perfection and exactly expand your consciousness in order to open yourself to that ah-ah moment so you can grasp the concept and understand that your imperfection is your perfection (everything is what you label it in the vision of your limited ego). So imperfection exists only when you create it for yourself (ego).

Choosing perfection over imperfection is not transcending duality and is not accepting things as they are without judgement.

Okay so why are you exactly telling me this?

Haven't you people heard of insight meditation, noting? Why is it so hard to understand that duality must be and it's perfect by itself as everything else in nature.

Are you getting a little irate? I'm telling you this because it is how I experience the notion of duality. How do you define the notions of non-duality and duality? .

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Shanti Shanti

In reply to Madguru I would say the Truth is the Truth it is not mine, yours or anyones it is the Truth it shines by its own light. You can't visualise it, discuss it, as it is as it is, beyond time space and our minds. Hence why I think we can't come to an adequate answer to duality / non-duality discussion, because of the hidden Truth that we are subconsciously aware but can't describe it. Hope that make sense.

What you have said here is your truth but not mine. In fact I would say this is your belief rather than truth and I have no reason to believe your belief is truth. However, we are entitled to believe whatever we want.

[Hong-Sau]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Choosing perfection over imperfection is not transcending duality and is not accepting things as they are without judgement.



Are you getting a little irate? I'm telling you this because it is how I experience the notion of duality. How do you define the notions of non-duality and duality? .

As I already said you must remove the conception of perfect and imperfect from your mind that's when you see the bare framework of how things work and see how everything always has been, is and will be (perfect IF YOU WILL, if you don't you can say it is imperfect but it will still be what it is it won't change because you changed your way of percieving it).
So what I mean is that things (duality or whatever) don't change because we perceive them through different points of view, different limitations that don't let us look past what we believe something is and etc. etc. - EGO

Imagine man as a Personal Computer without an Operating System which he starts installing since the day he is born and gets initiated in society (ego) that creates the world of perfection and imperfection for him.
If he hadn't had that OS installed he wouldn't even know what perfect or imperfect means so he is at the base framework (no OS/ego/limitation/duality) and from there it depends on what he learns from society that creates his perception of duality and sticks with it.
So people OPEN YOURSELVES TO THE AH-AH MOMENT in order to transcend your limitations and get INSIGHT not content and understand that things don't change because of our way of perceiving them.
Everything is what has always been, is and will be as soon as you understand that you can start removing that ego and start seeing things for what they are without your prejudices limits of belief etc.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Hong-Sau

As I already said you must remove the conception of perfect and imperfect from your mind that's when you see the bare framework of how things work and see how everything always has been, is and will be (perfect IF YOU WILL, if you don't you can say it is imperfect but it will still be what it is it won't change because you changed your way of percieving it).
So what I mean is that things (duality or whatever) don't change because we perceive them through different points of view, different limitations that don't let us look past what we believe something is and etc. etc. - EGO

I agree that our perceptions don't change anything and your perception of 'perfect' is no exception. If you believe you can see things as is, what makes them perfect to you?

Imagine man as a Personal Computer without an Operating System which he starts installing since the day he is born and gets initiated in society (ego) that creates the world of perfection and imperfection for him.
If he hadn't had that OS installed he wouldn't even know what perfect or imperfect means so he is at the base framework (no OS/ego/limitation/duality) and from there it depends on what he learns from society that creates his perception of duality and sticks with it.
So people OPEN YOURSELVES TO THE AH-AH MOMENT in order to transcend your limitations and get INSIGHT not content and understand that things don't change because of our way of perceiving them.
Everything is what has always been, is and will be as soon as you understand that you can start removing that ego and start seeing things for what they are without your prejudices limits of belief etc.

I believe in evolution and to accept things as they are, always will be and always have been, does mean nothing changes. I guess you have had an AhAh moment since you are promoting the idea. Ah-ah moments don't mean everything is perfect. Both notions of perfect and imperfect are transcended in ah-ah moments. I've had many moments of internal/mind transcendence of the human nature kind i.e. good and evil, loyal and disloyal, responsible and irresponsible etc. When you see reality as is these notions don't even come into it. Duality is all about the perceiver not the perceived.

[Hong-Sau]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I agree that our perceptions don't change anything and your perception of 'perfect' is no exception. If you believe you can see things as is, what makes them perfect to you?I believe in evolution and to accept things as they are, always will be and always have been, does mean nothing changes. I guess you have had an AhAh moment since you are promoting the idea. Ah-ah moments don't mean everything is perfect. Both notions of perfect and imperfect are transcended in ah-ah moments. I've had many moments of internal/mind transcendence of the human nature kind i.e. good and evil, loyal and disloyal, responsible and irresponsible etc. When you see reality as is these notions don't even come into it. Duality is all about the perceiver not the perceived.

But I didn't mean that things change or don't change (I said that there is a base framework which doesn't label things and perceive them as good/bad dual/non-dual tasty/disgusting and it does change according to our thoughts actions and intent but duality itself is an illusion your create for yourself whilst perceiving something and your ego tells you this is perfect/imperfect which is stupid as ****) or that I perceive things as perfect (don't you notice how I put IF YOU WILL after perfect while I was explaining it in my above post?) I am saying that you're creating the duality. Transcend it remove your limits/ego and see past it that's what I'm trying to say since my first post on this thread. You're saying all I said in different words and making me say it again with different words in order to feed your ego.
Duality is created by you TRANSCEND IT! (this is the same thing I've been repeating and you've been with your words) What don't you understand? Ask me a question and I will answer you I don't understand why are you even telling me all of the above. Your 2 last sentences explain duality in your words and it's the same I've been saying all the way.

And your last 2 sentences say the same thing Shanti Shanti said and you dismissed. You say that when you perceive reality as is you will see it without the notions of good/evil etc that is the same thing I am saying but I'm not saying reality as is but base framework...

[Hong-Sau]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I agree that our perceptions don't change anything and your perception of 'perfect' is no exception. If you believe you can see things as is, what makes them perfect to you?

Originally Posted by Hong-Sau

As I already said you must remove the conception of perfect and imperfect from your mind that's when you see the bare framework of how things work and see how everything always has been, is and will be (perfect IF YOU WILL, if you don't you can say it is imperfect but it will still be what it is it won't change because you changed your way of percieving it).

I have no perception of perfect that is just a word. Don't you see I said remove the conception of perfect and imperfect from your mind?

Originally Posted by Maguru

I believe in evolution and to accept things as they are, always will be and always have been, does mean nothing changes. I guess you have had an AhAh moment since you are promoting the idea. Ah-ah moments don't mean everything is perfect. Both notions of perfect and imperfect are transcended in ah-ah moments. I've had many moments of internal/mind transcendence of the human nature kind i.e. good and evil, loyal and disloyal, responsible and irresponsible etc. When you see reality as is these notions don't even come into it. Duality is all about the perceiver not the perceived.

Evolution is part of the base framework everything changes when I say that everything is was and will be what it has been I am actually using other words for saying:

Originally Posted by Maguru

reality as is

without perceiving the notions of good and evil, loyal and disloyal, responsible and irresponsible etc.
Do you see clearly how we both are saying the same thing? That there is nothing perfect or imperfect if you choose not to perceive things as perfect or imperfect it is all an illusion of your ego.