Who are the Sons of God?

Originally Posted by theophilus

Only God existed in the beginning but he has created things that aren't part of him.

How's that? What things? If only God existed then all creation must be God. The way I read this, God cut off pieces of himself but that cannot be what you mean. Could you elaborate, please, Theophilus?

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Bluegreen

How's that? What things? If only God existed then all creation must be God. The way I read this, God cut off pieces of himself but that cannot be what you mean. Could you elaborate, please, Theophilus?

The Bible begins with the words "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." The word "create" means to bring into existence something that didn't exist before. If the heavens and the earth were parts of God that he separated from himself they would always have existed and it wouldn't be true that he created them.

[Mathew James]

Originally Posted by theophilus

The Bible begins with the words "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." The word "create" means to bring into existence something that didn't exist before. If the heavens and the earth were parts of God that he separated from himself they would always have existed and it wouldn't be true that he created them.

and what are all the options for the meanings of "in the beginning", "the heavens and the earth", "create".

imo, when the Creator created creation, or said another way, when humanity was placed on the planet and the ecosystems of the planet were finished being preapred for humanity, which imo was at the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, which was about 13,000 years ago, when our solar system was in the Galactic Winter Solstice. That is what "in the beginning" means. It is only referring to the beginning of humanity on the earth, and not the beginning of the Universe being created.

The "heavens and earth" just means the earth being exposed from being under the glaciers that were melting. That is how the earth appears. The sun was shinning strong in the sky above and that is what the heavens is referring to. The earth is the earth and the sky is the heavens. The glaciers melted and the sun flares were stronger than normal. That happened about 13,000 years ago, when the planet started warming up after going through the last Galactic Winter Solstice.

mj

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by theophilus

The Bible begins with the words "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

You're certain that the first words of Genesis -
בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
mean that?

B'shalom,

Peter

[Mathew James]

Originally Posted by RabbiO

You're certain that the first words of Genesis -

בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ

mean that?

RabbiO, can you let us know what they mean in the original language.

mj

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by RabbiO

You're certain that the first words of Genesis -
בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
mean that?

B'shalom,

Peter

I've read several different translations of the Bible and they all agree on how Genesis starts out. It doesn't seem possible that all of them would get it wrong and make exactly the same mistake.

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by Mathew James

RabbiO, can you let us know what they mean in the original language.

There is no consensus among Hebrew scholars as to how to best render the first two verses of the first chapter of Genesis. Actually, Torah has no chapter divisions and no verse designations. For that matter, Torah has virtually no punctuation and as you may be aware the Hebrew in the Torah has no vowels. All of these things, as well as other factors, come into play when translating.

בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
וְהָאָרֶץ הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ וְחֹשֶׁךְ עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים מְרַחֶפֶת עַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם

Putting aside the issue that בְּרֵאשִׁית, the first word does not really mean "in the beginning, and putting the aside the argument that verse 1 is a dependent clause to verse 2, which has certain implications, the key issue is the word בָּרָא , translated as "created" and what that means.

The word - transliterated as "bara" - is used only in connection with G-d. However, it neither denotes or connotes creation out of nothing. This is illustrated by the fact that it is the word used when first describing the creation of man and woman in the first chapter of Genesis and it is used again in the fifth chapter of Genesis again describing man and woman. However, the second chapter of Genesis - if one accepts it as an amplification of chapter 1 - clearly shows that neither Adam nor Eve were created from nothing, Adam from the dust and Eve from Adam's side.

B'shalom,

Peter