Spiritual Teachers

[Altair]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Idol worship or Hero worship is in the very basic nature of human being . If one does not believe in spiritual teacher then he/she may believe in some Hollywood icon or some billionaire or some politician . Whatever one says , one has no alternative in life but to follow others . If that's the case why not a great person like a spiritual master.

Perhaps it is so, collectively speaking, but not always true for every individual. Speaking as one person, I don't feel like worshipping the spiritual teacher, the Hollywood icon, or some billionaire or politician. I do not believe human beings are worthy of worship. To do so means giving power away and can create a relationship where the powerful become abusive and dangerous. It is almost as if to be worshipped means one becomes cursed.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Altair

Perhaps it is so, collectively speaking, but not always true for every individual. Speaking as one person, I don't feel like worshipping the spiritual teacher, the Hollywood icon, or some billionaire or politician. I do not believe human beings are worthy of worship. To do so means giving power away and can create a relationship where the powerful become abusive and dangerous. It is almost as if to be worshipped means one becomes cursed.

Maybe the guru/disciple relationship is not about unquestioning worship but more about trust.

The disciple trusts that the guru will guide him or her to spiritual attainment.

The guru trusts that the disciple will follow instructions and not misuse whatever he or she learns.

Sometimes the trust is abused by the guru, in which case the guru is just another imperfect human being.

Sometimes the trust is abused by the disciple, in which case the disciple is not ready for the responsibility of spiritual knowledge.

Is such trust giving away our power? We put our trust into all sorts of people every day. If we take a plane journey then we trust that the pilot is qualified, competent and sober. We trust that the aircraft has been properly maintained. We trust that the computerised navigation will get us to our destination. We trust in all sorts of things we have no control over. The idea that we have any real power is just another illusion.

Peace

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Altair

Perhaps it is so, collectively speaking, but not always true for every individual. Speaking as one person, I don't feel like worshipping the spiritual teacher, the Hollywood icon, or some billionaire or politician. I do not believe human beings are worthy of worship. To do so means giving power away and can create a relationship where the powerful become abusive and dangerous. It is almost as if to be worshipped means one becomes cursed.

Hi,
What u have written has been the case many times in history . In fact its proportion may be high . So the safeguard against it is to build very robust agile yardsticks and critieria for it and not to reject/discard it .

That will help us reap the benefit of such wonderful relationship without any pitfalls in our life .

Iamthat has explained and illustrated the importance of trust in very beautiful words. We can not and should not forgo the benefits of trust for some wrong people .

[peteyzen]

As with everyone commenting here, I can only speak from my own experience. For me the most powerful spiritual growth and the most pragmatic teachings of anyone alive today (as I say, this is for me), is Mother Meera. I first encountered her when my meditation and martial arts teacher mentioned her to me in 1994. A few of us went to darshan in Germany in her house in Thalheim. For me it was profound, we spent three nights there, she doesn't speak at all. Its just you, your ego and divine energy. Darshans then were three hours long. I came back from that weekend expanded.
Since then, I have had probably 50 darshans with Mother Meera over the years. These days she travels around the world. Darshans are free and I find them profound. Mother Meera professes to be an Avatar, a part pf the divine descended to the Earth, fully god conscious, here to help us develop. Many Westerners find this ludicrous and an immediate put off, I know I did. If it hadn`t been my profound respect for my Teacher I would have dismissed her. Thankfully I didn`t.
If you are looking for someone who doesn't charge, doesn't talk and claims to be an aspect of god, lol then she`s the one for you.
But don't take my word for it, explore yourself.
Good hunting.

[Jyotir]

Agree with others in the thread that real spiritual teachers are a true benefit of unfathomable and invaluable import whether the contact is inner or outer or in some cases both.

Sri Aurobindo explains that traditionally spiritual teachers provide 3 things:

1) the conceptual part of the teaching, their unique offering in the form of speaking, writing, etc.

2) that they are a living example, the embodiment of what they teach to demonstrate the practical possibility and attainment; that its not just a theory (as in #1)

3) influence on the aspirant

The first 2 are obvious.
The 3rd is the least understood because this includes occult assistance, protection, revelation*, and various other facilitation and experience that must come from an inner mutual commitment, trust and devotion to the Highest by both parties which the master easily knows whether this intention is present in the aspirant. There is usually a clear awareness within the aspirant that this is happening, even if not obvious or even credible as possibility to skeptics - although even skeptics have been shocked into a different orientation by the immediate influence of a spiritual master. There are well known stories in spiritual lore about this phenomenon.


* for instance as experienced with darshan or just in the physical presence of a genuine spiritual master



~ J

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by peteyzen

As with everyone commenting here, I can only speak from my own experience. For me the most powerful spiritual growth and the most pragmatic teachings of anyone alive today (as I say, this is for me), is Mother Meera. I first encountered her when my meditation and martial arts teacher mentioned her to me in 1994. A few of us went to darshan in Germany in her house in Thalheim. For me it was profound, we spent three nights there, she doesn't speak at all. Its just you, your ego and divine energy. Darshans then were three hours long. I came back from that weekend expanded.
Since then, I have had probably 50 darshans with Mother Meera over the years. These days she travels around the world. Darshans are free and I find them profound. Mother Meera professes to be an Avatar, a part pf the divine descended to the Earth, fully god conscious, here to help us develop. Many Westerners find this ludicrous and an immediate put off, I know I did. If it hadn`t been my profound respect for my Teacher I would have dismissed her. Thankfully I didn`t.
If you are looking for someone who doesn't charge, doesn't talk and claims to be an aspect of god, lol then she`s the one for you.
But don't take my word for it, explore yourself.
Good hunting.

Thanks for this. I too went to see Mother Meera back in the 1990s in Thalheim, after reading Hidden Journey by Andrew Harvey. Coming from Europe we could only have two darshans over the weekend. At the first one, nothing startling happened. On the second evening I had let go of many expectations. My wife and I were among the last to enter the hall and I was looking for an empty seat when an attendant indicated that we should take two vacant chairs right next to Mother Meera. I spent the whole darshan bathed in her energy, and after I had been forward and she looked into my eyes, all sorts of things were happening within, energies were being shifted, and I was in a completely altered state. Very powerful.

Peace

[A human Being]

A spiritual teacher I've been listening to quite a bit recently is Pema Chodron, having been put onto her teachings by another forum member, JosephineBloggs (thanks again, Jo ) - I find her to be such a wise, compassionate teacher who explains things in terms that are easy to understand and who also has a sense of humour (I like that in a spiritual teacher, I think a sense of humour is important because it can be very easy for us spiritually-inclined folks to take ourselves much too seriously). For those who are interested in understanding and coming to terms with the human condition, I recommend the video I'm currently listening to, entitled How To Connect With The Open Unobstructed Clarity Of Your Own Being In Every Moment, it's over an hour long but it's worth a listen if you have the time :)

[linen53]

People who have lived through hell here on Earth and lived to tell about it.

[adamkade]

Me. There are others. Jesus spoke to me in 1996. That was the greatest of experiences. Germaine. Kell Shantia. Jeremiah. Metatron. Blavanski was very good. Joseph Cambell. The essays of Jung are insightful.

Silvia Pankhurst.

On the earth plane. Hmmm. I will have to think about that. The teachers here are very good. It depends on the point of evolution of an individual. You always have what you most need. Look around you. Bird song is inspirational. An empty cup is inspirational.

Indeed the kingdom is God is here. Think of what you have and bless and it. Whatever you bless comes back to you tenfold. Think of what you lack, and even what you have will cease.

Originally Posted by linen53

People who have lived through hell here on Earth and lived to tell about it.

+1 trillion.

There is no better guide than life experience.