I am having my doubts about like attracts like

Originally Posted by markings

As an example let's take this line from the Dao Te Ching:

"The sage, by doing nothing gets everything done."

From a worldly viewpoint (physical, intellectual) that is clearly nonsense.
From a celestial viewpoint (mental, spiritual) it is different. By doing nothing in the mental, spiritual realm, procrastination, self-criticism, goal orientated thinking, upholding resentments, old hurts, prejudices, not seeking even enlightenment, but moving above these things, he gets everything done that needs to be done in the worldly realm.

Well, there's a contradiction for a start. If you do nothing in the mental. spiritual realm, how can you move above the things you list? Die, I suppose.
Because you won't survive unless you concern yourself with matters of survival on the material plane.
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[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Flexi-Girl

I guess my initial post is that people often look to grand spiritual answers in their lives when a more mundane answer is likely the most helpful answer.

Not always but usually.

I get it reality is boring and mundane.

Yeah we can always feel our emotions, as they are the true indicator of our vibrational point of attraction.

[Flexi-Girl]

Hi Ewwerrin,

That's quite an eye-full. I had to read your post a couple of times.

You may be surprised that I don't disagree with your point of view. I think your thoughts do have a major affect.

I just think sometimes it's easy to overlook that one's own behaviors might be contributing to a negative outcome more than just their thinking.

As we all know, good thoughts and well meaning intentions don't always result in positive outcomes. Sometimes they might even cause negative outcomes.

Walking in the middle of a freeway blissfully unaware of the oncoming traffic may not be a smartest way to apply positive thinking.

Extreme example? Of course but hopefully it will help clarify.

Crikey.........the words individually make sense but strung together.......
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[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Well, there's a contradiction for a start. If you do nothing in the mental. spiritual realm, how can you move above the things you list? Die, I suppose.
Because you won't survive unless you concern yourself with matters of survival on the material plane.

Another possibility is that the sage continues to act, doing whatever is required, but always knowing that he or she is not the doer.

In this context, doing nothing does not mean taking no action; instead it indicates that all action is effortless.

Peace

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Flexi-Girl

Hi Ewwerrin,

That's quite an eye-full. I had to read your post a couple of times.

You may be surprised that I don't disagree with your point of view. I think your thoughts do have a major affect.

I just think sometimes it's easy to overlook that one's own behaviors might be contributing to a negative outcome more than just their thinking.

As we all know, good thoughts and well meaning intentions don't always result in positive outcomes. Sometimes they might even cause negative outcomes.

Walking in the middle of a freeway blissfully unaware of the oncoming traffic may not be a smartest way to apply positive thinking.

Extreme example? Of course but hopefully it will help clarify.

Yeah I agree, thanks for clarifying. I deleted the post because it was too long. It is always more about how I feel than words.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Another possibility is that the sage continues to act, doing whatever is required, but always knowing that he or she is not the doer.

In this context, doing nothing does not mean taking no action; instead it indicates that all action is effortless.

Peace

So the practice to master the effortless.
The sage does nothing.
The sage is lazy.
Action brings good result.
When the sage is lazy, action brings good results.
Not trying anything, but allowing conscious awareness of what is good.
The good inspires good action.
But to allow the emotions to reveal the good action, is lazy.
Lazy allows for conscious presence of available good action.
Good action is always easy. And thus always beneficial.
Effortless is mastery of good action. To leverage the energy which creates worlds, to do nothing and leave nothing undone. Succes upon succes. Only endless succes.
None of it attached to.
All of it is allowed to flow with powerful conscious yielding to it and allowing of it to flow through oneself effortlessly and joyfully. Freely and succesfully.
For when it is recognized to feel good, it is allowed to be and become naturally and effortlessly.
And the sage is there just as a co-creator of it.
A participent. A co-operative component of it.
A willingness and readiness for and of it. With and as it.
A pipe and channel for it to allow it to flow as and through inspired action.
The energy is what is real. And it is felt and known to be real even before it is revealed unto all.
It is first felt and then allowed to be known and then allowed to be acted upon.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Another possibility is that the sage continues to act, doing whatever is required, but always knowing that he or she is not the doer.

In this context, doing nothing does not mean taking no action; instead it indicates that all action is effortless.

Peace

But does that work? If one is not doing nothing one is doing something, surely, i.e. acting on something? That something may be effortless but it still isn't doing nothing? Doing nothing means that nothing gets done (by whoever it may concern).

Like I say, this comes across as word play. However, I let it go because it isn't in my belief which dictates that one has to do many things in order to survive. Getting a new contract of work isn't effortless but without work I don't eat and without that I die. Compromising in a relationship isn't effortless unless I'm willing to become a doormat....and on.

But for the twist of words it still comes across as a contradiction. Doing nothing and not doing nothing are mutually exclusive regardless of the effort going into the not-nothing, surely?
.

And peace be with you, too.

[MikeS80]

The law of attraction is a concept, a concept like the many other spiritual teachings/concepts that is suppose to bring a person closer to true reality, but people's egos get in their own way and think/believe that is all there is to it, or wants other people to believe that that is all there is to it.

The law of attraction is suppose to bring you closer to true reality, not make you feel like or turn you into an emotional and manipulated victim. Emotions can turn you into a conditioned and manipulated victim. Truth is not emotional one bit thus, truth negates all emotional untruths, falsehoods and lies. There is a place for emotions but truth is not one of them. No person can think with a clear head, while he/she is in an emotional state.

The law of attraction is entirely dependent on a persons subjective beliefs, mental and emotional conditioning that is not truth, these subjective beliefs, mental and emotional conditioning that is not truth, alters the way the person perceives true reality. True reality is the way things/reality are in front of your eyes in the right here and right now. True reality has nothing to do with your past memories and future. The further away a person gets from true reality that person attracts and a person in true reality, creates.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The law of attraction is a concept, a concept like the many other spiritual teachings/concepts that is suppose to bring a person closer to true reality, but people's egos get in their own way and think/believe that is all there is to it, or wants other people to believe that that is all there is to it.

But wouldn't you say that the concept is by its very nature egocentric? Isn't it about individual egos attracting things desired into their personal existences?

The law of attraction is suppose to bring you closer to true reality, not make you feel like or turn you into an emotional and manipulated victim. Emotions can turn you into a conditioned and manipulated victim. Truth is not emotional one bit thus, truth negates all emotional untruths, falsehoods and lies. There is a place for emotions but truth is not one of them. No person can think with a clear head, while he/she is in an emotional state.

Not sure it's designed to bring anyone closer to "true reality". What did you mean by true reality? Your closing para doesn't quite cut it. No doubt there is one out there but it's always hidden by our perceptive processing. People make their reality - fine - so I suppose your idea is that they change how they perceive what's there. Is that it? And if so, how do they do it?
If you're talking about closing in on your "real" self - the self for most people buried under thick layers of illusion, conditioning and delusion, then I'd choose an approach very different from LoA. I can't see how it would work for that (assuming it works at all). As a stronger, ritual, occult version it may work if you chose the right symbols but...I don't know. I chose a different path.

I agree though that one needs to develop a dispassionate state to be able to proceed into self. LoA won't help with that because most of what a person-with-their-ego wants to attract is something they haven't got. It comes back to Crowley's "true will" which as he and many others came to realise, is not easy to find. Until one does find it, they're unlikely to separate need from want successfully.

One has to ask these questions to validate what one's being asked to believe/do. It's too easy to get led up blind alleys.
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