An identity question for Spirit (you)

Originally Posted by movingalways

they are spiritual identifications.

Identifications are psychological and if you identify as anything other than yourself, according to Jung, you have a personality issue. Using the word 'Spiritual' to differentiate only makes it less Spiritual and is not non-Duality - it's the creation of Duality. What you identify with is a 'thing'.

Originally Posted by iamthat

So maybe the question should be: Do you, Consciousness, identify with your effects or with you as cause?

Or perhaps: Do you, Consciousness, identify with Spirit or with personality?

Who is the 'I' that identifies as and with?

The fundamental questions haven't been asked so everything after that is based on misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

If this verse is to be believed, then it points beyond all Causes and Effects and also contains within it what we call all Causes and all Effects.

There is no time, according to numerous posts filled with Spirituality.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

In non-duality 'you' are myth
"No body , No mind but I - eternal consciousness"

Get that guy some veer and popcorn.

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Identifications are psychological and if you identify as anything other than yourself, according to Jung, you have a personality issue. Using the word 'Spiritual' to differentiate only makes it less Spiritual and is not non-Duality - it's the creation of Duality. What you identify with is a 'thing'.

The reconciling Christ or the compassionate Buddha are names for oneself as one is being transformed from the ego (separate) sense to spirit realization, they are not things. Once could accurately say that they represent an activity of the heart.

Non Duality can only be experienced or intuited in the silence of names but Spirit must go through the mind to go beyond the mind to fully realize itself as the unlimited and unchanging first principle (the essential self or soul).

[movingalways]

Joe Mc: Here is a verse from the Bhagavad Gita, that I have come across in recent days.

Never was the Self Born ; never shall it
Cease to be. Without, Beginning or End,
Free from birth, Free from death, And free from time,
How can the Self die when the body dies ?

If this verse is to be believed, then it points beyond all Causes and Effects and also contains within it what we call all Causes and all Effects.

What I am referring to is the process of nondual realization or awakening. It is said in the bible "where there is no vision, the people perish" so as well have having received the vision of the nameless and formless Self, one must also receive a vision of realizing or awakening to the nameless and formless Self.

So while it is true that there is no beginning, if one does not intuit a spiritual beginning (a formless cause) it would be difficult to make that necessary 'leap' from clinging to cessation of clinging.

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna informs Arjuna that he is to fulfill his warrior duty in the name of selfless action. Obviously the Self that you wrote about above is not a warrior that kills bodies (why would it?) but clearly, the unmoving Self moves Arjuna's body as he resumes his place in the battlefield. 'Spirit' suggests the (invisible) causal principle of formless action or 'doing the will of the Father' in contrast to doing the will of the ego sense (desiring the effects of fame, glory, pride, etc.)

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Get that guy some veer and popcorn.

You think we are kidding . But nobody including me is kidding . Non-duality is a natural condition nobody can ever escape . At the very base level even the person who does not know non-duality still undergoes such an experience by compulsion by God-ordinate compulsorily induced sleep . During this non-duality -sleep , you dont know anybody (i , me , u we , they , wife, husband, kids ) and they are a 'myth' at that point in time for you. It is only due to spiritual associations during sleep that we get refreshed , worries mitigated , hopes gained , memory restored . If even for a few moment that spirit departs your (or anybody's ) , body becomes 'deadbody' to be consigned for funerals rites .

In the life of real seekers the non-duality is so strong that they forget their bodies also and accept body-death even for absolutely no fault of theirs - just simply because of the the thoughts they believed and preached . 'Jesus' and 'Socrates' are such very great example of that. Otherwise no 'SANE' like us will ever let our body get even a small scratch just for some thoughts in our brain - forget about dying for it. It is due to that strong spiritual associations that they are still alive whereas our own kids dont remember us after our death.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

You think we are kidding .

No, you think I think you're kidding. So where's the non-Duality in that?

Originally Posted by movingalways

are names for oneself as one is being

Ultimately there is no self, Spirituality has any number of selfs/bodies and oneself is still individualised and therefore 'separative' ego. 'Oneself' is another name for ego - one's self is the perception one has of self.

This is the reason it's not a good idea to use non-Spiritual words/terms in Spirituality when there are better understandings to be had from Spiritual words.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Who is the 'I' that identifies as and with?

This is the crux of the matter. There is just awareness, within which arises the thought of "I". Let go of the thought of "I" and there is just awareness.

Peace