Self Knowing. Fact or Fiction ?

Quiet a bold assertion on the face of it because knowing yourself would appear to be solely dependent on your personal experiences , responses and the understandings one develops personally as a result of those things.

Admittedly there are tools like transcendental meditation and mindfulness that can , it is said, divorce our perspectives from personal biases , but for the most part , while we as individuals are involved in living this life we are subject to that which we have come to accept as our understanding based upon our experience and more importantly, how we personally have responded and come to understand those experiences and influences. That is to say ...We are it appears , shaped just as much , if not more so than we would ourselves try to shape. Which is well worth considering when read assertions on these or any other forums.

I dont see self actualization as enlightenment as being bold. I came across this while studying Buddhism philosophies and it rang true to me. Your words here kinda remind me of Buddhism thoughts.

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

The way I see it is like this...
As far as a lifetime is concerned, you may only ever experience yourself from one perspective
That is, the perspective of yourself, of your body and ego
But there are a very large number of different perspectives, yes?
The perspective of your mother, of your father, of your best friend, of your dog, and every other perspective on the face of the Earth
In order to know yourself fully, you'd have to understand how every single one of these perspectives views you
And even more than that, to truly define yourself you have to know your origin, and in the end (or beginning), the origin of you is the origin of the universe
In other words, to truly define yourself, you'd have to define everything that exists
An impossible task, really
But it turns out that it is not so impossible after all
As many people have experienced the epiphany, the totally obvious realization that in order to define yourself, you must define everything, and so YOU MUST BE EVERYTHING
To have such an experience is true self-realization

to be everything as true self realization would make one omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscience. I don't think the human body can withstand that. In spirit alone, yes.

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by Gracey

to be everything as true self realization would make one omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscience. I don't think the human body can withstand that. In spirit alone, yes.

Indeed this is true, one cannot conceive of this infinite nature with the finite mind.
However, the experience of enlightenment is just that, a direct experience of this infinite nature.
When you have the experience, you don't think it to be true, you KNOW it to be true.
However, this knowledge is not knowledge of the mind.
And unfortunately, when sharing such experiences with others, the experience MUST be filtered through the mind, through the ego.
And so any sharing of such a truth will be colored by culture and language and many other things.
This is a big part of why there are so many religions that are at odds... they are simply different interpretations of the same universal truth.
I guarantee that if Jesus and Siddhartha were to meet, they would agree on the absolute.
They may disagree on how to help people, and other trivialities, as they are both human, but they would fundamentally know that they had the same understanding of the universe, of reality, and of the self.

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

Indeed this is true, one cannot conceive of this infinite nature with the finite mind.
However, the experience of enlightenment is just that, a direct experience of this infinite nature.
When you have the experience, you don't think it to be true, you KNOW it to be true.


Yes exactly

However, this knowledge is not knowledge of the mind.
And unfortunately, when sharing such experiences with others, the experience MUST be filtered through the mind, through the ego.
And so any sharing of such a truth will be colored by culture and language and many other things.
This is a big part of why there are so many religions that are at odds... they are simply different interpretations of the same universal truth.
I guarantee that if Jesus and Siddhartha were to meet, they would agree on the absolute.
They may disagree on how to help people, and other trivialities, as they are both human, but they would fundamentally know that they had the same understanding of the universe, of reality, and of the self.

Very well put!

I do think that in this physical life, man can and does connect with the divine in the form of oneness...but not entirely. A prophetic dream is a glimpse of all knowing. Remote viewing is a glimpse of being omnipresent and so on.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Gracey

to be everything as true self realization would make one omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscience. I don't think the human body can withstand that. In spirit alone, yes.

"quantum entanglement"
the quantum state of particles cannot be described independently.
(there is no separation of being)
every molecule, every atom is an expression of the whole.

the whole picture is encapsulated within each fragment of a hologram.

also, Spirit is not alone!

it's okay to hold the belief that a human (yourself?) cannot be omnipotent,
but that's just a belief. right? to project that limitation onto another
seems shameful to me. [that's a personal belief]

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by Gracey

Very well put!

I do think that in this physical life, man can and does connect with the divine in the form of oneness...but not entirely. A prophetic dream is a glimpse of all knowing. Remote viewing is a glimpse of being omnipresent and so on.

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

"quantum entanglement"
the quantum state of particles cannot be described independently.
(there is no separation of being)
every molecule, every atom is an expression of the whole.

the whole picture is encapsulated within each fragment of a hologram.

also, Spirit is not alone!

it's okay to hold the belief that a human (yourself?) cannot be omnipotent,
but that's just a belief. right? to project that limitation onto another
seems shameful to me. [that's a personal belief]

Our experience as it is in this moment is on a slider of sorts, on one end is material existence and on the other is immaterial existence (oneness).
And every perspective exists somewhere on this slider.
The closer you get to realizing the omnipotent nature of the universe, of the absolute, of God, the farther you get away from your material existence.
And so arises this funny conundrum, that the more inherent power you realize you have, the less you care to use it for any specific purpose.
As you get farther away from your material self, the less you care about the trivialities of a material life, and so using such inherent power to make change becomes less and less appealing.
In order for an individual to be completely omnipotent, they'd have to experience themselves as the ENTIRE UNIVERSE.
And of course, if you experience yourself as such, you experience yourself as everything in it, and you once again get lost in the game and you are back to square one.
Do you see how it works now?
It all repeats.

The thing is, we are already omnipotent.
A single human being is already omnipotent, as a single human being is representative of the entire omnipotent system of the universe.
But a single human being cannot experience that omnipotence directly, unless they move away from that notion of an individual self.
And to experience that omnipotence in its entirety, they'd have to completely cease identification as an individual, and become nothing but the system as a whole.

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

"quantum entanglement"
the quantum state of particles cannot be described independently.
(there is no separation of being)
every molecule, every atom is an expression of the whole.

the whole picture is encapsulated within each fragment of a hologram.

also, Spirit is not alone!

it's okay to hold the belief that a human (yourself?) cannot be omnipotent,
but that's just a belief. right? to project that limitation onto another
seems shameful to me. [that's a personal belief]

I would not put shame on any ones belief or thoughts on things, but that's just me.


You have that boxed up nicley in your thoughts. Then you say spirit is not alone. How interesting. What do you mean by that?

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

Our experience as it is in this moment is on a slider of sorts, on one end is material existence and on the other is immaterial existence (oneness).
And every perspective exists somewhere on this slider.
The closer you get to realizing the omnipotent nature of the universe, of the absolute, of God, the farther you get away from your material existence.
And so arises this funny conundrum, that the more inherent power you realize you have, the less you care to use it for any specific purpose.


As you get farther away from your material self, the less you care about the trivialities of a material life, and so using such inherent power to make change becomes less and less appealing.


Yes, exactly.


In order for an individual to be completely omnipotent, they'd have to experience themselves as the ENTIRE UNIVERSE.
And of course, if you experience yourself as such, you experience yourself as everything in it, and you once again get lost in the game and you are back to square one.
Do you see how it works now?
It all repeats.

The thing is, we are already omnipotent.
A single human being is already omnipotent, as a single human being is representative of the entire omnipotent system of the universe.
But a single human being cannot experience that omnipotence directly, unless they move away from that notion of an individual self.
And to experience that omnipotence in its entirety, they'd have to completely cease identification as an individual, and become nothing but the system as a whole.

Have you come to these expressed words from thought or awareness through experience?

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by Gracey

Have you come to these expressed words from thought or awareness through experience?

I experienced all of this spontaneously, while driving a car, back when I was 18. At least I think I was 18. I am 21 now.

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

I experienced all of this spontaneously, while driving a car, back when I was 18. At least I think I was 18. I am 21 now.

However, it has taken me quite a long time to translate that singular experience into words that I can share with others.