Freedom.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I'll bet you mean thoughts.
I know that one - been there, done that.

There is a "place" when your mind stops and all of a sudden , shazam -
you've reached a "different realm" or something and things are ..well...more interesting and it grabs you're attention.
Like all of a sudden there is a stillness that is ... different.
I have a way with words, don't I?

I don't see how that limits the mind.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't see how that ? limits the mind.

"That" meaning exactly what ? Bec of this writing back and forth it's hard to know what exactly you are referring to. I can only think you mean
it's hard to see how"Thoughts"? limit the mind?

I can't say much til I know - -but to say - there is an awareness that happens that is very pristine when the thoughts stop ---and a person maybe
being a beginner at meditating, I dunno, possibly not controlling thoughts all day it could take 2 hours of focus --- but not on your thoughts, see.
Gently, quieting thoughts - not watching them as Buddhists, I hear, do - but going past them - to a profound stillness.

Anyway, that's all I can offer bec I have to run.

Freedom from the emotions that thoughts can take you to - we are still talking about Freedom..I have to remember that.
Intellectualizing (thoughts) can only take one "so far".
Carl Jung, Einstein and Bertrand Russel, among others, have all said this ---
"Wherever man is to go individually or as a whole
they will not get there with their mind."

Later...always pleasure talking with you, Gem.

[Gem]

'That' refers to what you said... and I'm wondering... is freedom the freedom of mind or the freedom from mind.

Only the bound can be freed. The free can't be freed. Are we concerned with being free because we are bound? Bound to what? Is everyone bound by the same thing, or does each individual have tailor made shackles?

It's the clinging and like hanging by your grip it slowly weakens until it just can't hold anymore, then you fall.

[psychoslice]

The shackle maybe dualism ?, while we are under the illusion that we are all separate we are never free ?.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

The shackle maybe dualism ?, while we are under the illusion that we are all separate we are never free ?.

Precisely, psycho.
Gem,
And may I here insert one of my favorite wisdoms from Kenneth Hagin:

Thoughts are like birds flying overhead - you can not control them --
But you certainly can stop one from making a nest in your hair.

I have been practicing for a year or so - being the observer of my feelings -(which come from basic thoughts and beliefs; As a man thinketh, so he is..., not taking love, excitement, disappointment seriously at all - I just watch and say - 'Hmm, interesting and let's see how this changes in a few seconds...' without acting upon anything.

I've lost 27 pounds just watching hunger pangs even...observing...
not "owning" alot of the thoughts or feelings.

Try being a hormonal woman that wants to slap most people upside the head - you learn fast to simply "watch" these nutty feelings and not trust them.

Now, I have a foundation of faith or a belief system I replace nutty
feelings I don't trust with -
do you have something like that?

Take care,
Miss Hepburn

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Gem

'That' refers to what you said... and I'm wondering... is freedom the freedom of mind or the freedom from mind.

Only the bound can be freed. The free can't be freed. Are we concerned with being free because we are bound? Bound to what? Is everyone bound by the same thing, or does each individual have tailor made shackles?

It's the clinging and like hanging by your grip it slowly weakens until it just can't hold anymore, then you fall.

I'd say tailor made shackles - some are bound by guilt, shame....I'm not.
Others are bound by sex addiction...I'm not.

That's why I spoke of being the observer before.
We've got to be the victor or the conqueror or the overcomer of these temptations or thoughts that bring depression, low self esteem, shame, hatred, anger, envy ---imo.

I would say bound, shackled and also led around or controlled by the Mind.

Bound to what? Bound to believing and being attached to what the Mind and it's thoughts "say", imo...
identifying with the silly thoughts that pass thru.

I practice mind control - ever since a friend/therapist told me to after a break up and I was sick to my stomach for a long time!
"What ? I can control my thoughts and thus my feelings -Shazam!" Who knew!
Then, I found Abraham-Hicks! And E. Tolle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpkrLqahToI&feature=related

Abraham-Hicks link on emotions.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I'd say tailor made shackles - some are bound by guilt, shame....I'm not.
Others are bound by sex addiction...I'm not.

That's why I spoke of being the observer before.
We've got to be the victor or the conqueror or the overcomer of these temptations or thoughts that bring depression, low self esteem, shame, hatred, anger, envy ---imo.

I would say bound, shackled and also led around or controlled by the Mind.

Bound to what? Bound to believing and being attached to what the Mind and it's thoughts "say", imo...
identifying with the silly thoughts that pass thru.

I practice mind control - ever since a friend/therapist told me to after a break up and I was sick to my stomach for a long time!
"What ? I can control my thoughts and thus my feelings -Shazam!" Who knew!
Then, I found Abraham-Hicks! And E. Tolle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpkrLqahToI&feature=related

Abraham-Hicks link on emotions.

I take it this woman claims to chanel 'someone else' which isn't my thing at all. I find Tolle a little bit silly too. I don't know who Abraham Hicks is.

I think people have to feel the emotions that occur... sooner or later... and the control of emotions is only their acceptance or resistance, and the emotional blocks people experience are directly repressed by that resistance.

Why would the observer not observe the emotions as they occur?

Maybe it's best just to accept how we really feel, and not bother about trying to control that.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

The shackle maybe dualism ?, while we are under the illusion that we are all separate we are never free ?.

There is no seperation in dualizm...

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Gem

There is no seperation in dualizm...

Yes you and I know that but those who don't, are never really free.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Yes you and I know that but those who don't, are never really free.

Free of what though?

People say guilt... I experience regret.

Shame... pretty much the same thing really.

Hatred... I like some stuff and other stuff not so much.

Envy... nope.

Still... I experience all nature of darker emotions, and sometimes I have a rare glimmer of happiness or something too. Would I now assume I'm bound and retain these feelings bind me until not one skerrick of them remains... That seems a little ridiculous... I don't know anyone at all who doesn't experience these.