Making Allowances for Vegetarians/Vegans

[Squatchit]

Hiya all

I watch a TV programme call 'Come Dine with Me'. It involves four strangers hosting a dinner party for four consecutive nights. All for each other.

What I've noticed is that if one of the four is a vegetarian or vegan, the host prepares an alternative for that guest (which I deem fair and proper).

However, come the night of the vegetarian/vegan, the food hardly ever (never) involves meat.

Not only do the carnivores have to work harder at pleasing the guests, they also have to go without meat when the vegetarian/vegan hosts.

Is that normal? Is it lop-sided....because it seems so to me.

Oh, thats lopsided IMO.

I thikn vegans tend to do that anyways ( well all of us but for the sake of the conversation..) An apple evolved its tasty fruit, so that when an animal deficates, or drips the scraps, the seeds will grow, and the plant is successful. Almost all of us throw them out, and or compost them, not even giving these plants a chance.

We arent letting nature do its thing, and its a habit for all of us, but I think vegans miss this point more, because its actualy cruel to nature NOT to let some of them survive.

Basicaly, fruit in nature, its a give get give situation:

Tree makes fruit enticing - animal is attracted - animal eats - animal drops, or deficates, and makes the plants range further - new animals eat - etc etcinto infinity.

Your situation, and what we do with food si the same. That is a take - take situation, and isnt how nature works, totaly botching the whole POV of being a vegan.vegitarian.

***** im no knocking what they do, its your life, your desicions. But equily, i have just as much right to express my opinion about it tactfully, and respectfuly ( which I belive I do), if im interested, or dont necassarily agree with it.

[Squatchit]

I suppose my argument is that if I was going to dinner party hosted by a vegan, meat should be on the menu. For the likes of me...a carnivore.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone, seeing as it's in the Veg*n section.

However, there isn't a meat section. Sorry again.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Squatchit

Not only do the carnivores have to work harder at pleasing the guests, they also have to go without meat when the vegetarian/vegan hosts.
Is that normal? Is it lop-sided....because it seems so to me.

Omnivores ya mean..

I think it is 'normal' though. The vegetarian/vegan decides not to consume eat, so that would not only include eating it but also buying/preparing it.
As I've been both a vegetarian and a meat eater I can understand the former wouldn't want to prepare a meal with meat in it.

It does beg the question why a vegetarian or vegan participates in such a programme.. of course for the makers of the programme such is only interesting..!

Well the whole show was to see how the other people treat their party guests, which usualy (IMO) would mean catering to everyones tastes.

The main thing is that the other people catered to him, it would just be polite, respectful, and showing thanks to them, if he at least TRIED to appease their normal appitites..

The thing is also is that, thats how HE eats and cooks, implying that not serving meat on the menu, can possibly lead to saying eating meat is the way to go ( i think we should be omnivorious, with a slight emphisis on fruits and veggies personaly... but id never want anyone to go against what they think is right)

The main thing about a party host is to accmidate yoru guests. If i had someone who was diebetic, and couldnt eat certain food, i would gladly accomodate him, as best as I can.

But the situation your talking about, is almost like asking an east indian family to serve milk with cookies, becasue thats how " everyone else" eats ( im assuming you know they dont eat dairy products).

Really its an interesting question squat... Because i dont think theres any real answer, only becasue our opinions on that situation will vary as much as our eating habits.

I understand where you are coming from on this. However, the problem is that in order for me to prepare meat for you at my dinner table, something has to be killed and if I am morally against killing animals then I simply cannot do that. However, what I will do is prepare a meal that is abundant, provides all the necessary protein and other nutrients for human health, and is flavorful and interesting and I guarantee that you will not feel that you 'missed out'. My husband eats meat still when we go out. I do not cook meat at all at home, but he has said numerous times that he is more than satisfied with the food that I prepare at home. Our friends are like you and when they've had dinner at our house, they are also satisfied.

My personal feelings when I eat at someone else's house is that they don't need to provide a special dish for me. The only thing I would hope is that they don't slather butter over the vegetables. I have no expectation of special consideration.

I would never ask or insist that someone do something that is against their 'morals or ethics'. I would never go to a Jewish persons home and expect their home and expect them to provide me with a meal of say stroganoff (beef in a milk sauce). Why would you expect me to go against my ethics to satisfy your 'want'? Mind you, if a person moved to a veg'n dietary lifestyle for only health reasons, then you might have a leg to stand on.

[BlueSky]

The thing is, eating a meal without meat isn't all that unusual. Meat eaters do it all the time, so to me it is still respectful for the veg to not make a meat dish.
I'll tell you this...as a non-meat eater, when people go out of their way to make sure that I have something to eat, when they know I am coming and that I don't eat meat............I am deeply touched and grateful.........deeply!
In fact, I went to China once with work and when the people we were visiting found out, it seemed like the whole country went out of its way to make sure that I was pleased!
People are awesome!
Blessings, James

I got a question for you debs..... ( im asking you because youll actualy tell me how you feel without dancing around it )

Im not trying to be disrespecful, or talking about you personaly, im talking in general.... I have a question that id like you to answer as best you can please....

Life needs other life to survive. ITs how nature works.. Any ecologist, botanist, zoologist etc will tell you that. Certain animals eat, only meat, only plants, only insects, or all 3.

Most, if not all vegans say " i wont anything that came from an animal", or the one i hear lots of " i wont eat anthing with a face".. Basicaly what i can get from that is you dont want to cause harm to something living ( which i cannot say is a negative attribute).

So this would mean all meat, feathers, cheese, milk, eggs and the like. All of these come from the death, or taking from an animal.

Now, generaly speaking thes veiws deal with animals. What about plants? They cant scream in pain, or look you in teh eye when they die, but they are still life, which actualy causes just as much harm to the enviroment to farm. only 7% of the US is taken up my cities and roads, but it take 75% of the land to support the people, which is mostly food crops. THis eliminates prarie life by the millions, as well as aquatic life due to fertilizer and manure run off.....

Now, the main question is. Oil and gas, is made from decomposed animals. Sure its a a few hundred to a few dozen million years old, but it is STILL animal life. SO all plastics, gasoline, butaine, motor oil, and technology, is made from dead animals. Does this mean vegans should give up their cars, computers, tvs, plastic bowls, and utensils, stives, heating ( furnace) air conditioners and the like??

The other thing is.... 90% of us throw away the seeds from our produce. The fact that fruits evolved the way they did, is becasue we and animals are supposed to eat the fruit to spread the seeds. ITs really the only reason fruits developed such good taste, look, and flesh at all ( its the ONLY reason they make fruit is so animals eat it, and drop/.deficate the seeds). When you throw out an apple core, or compost the pepper tops, you are effectivly killing/harming lifes cycle. You are not letting nature do its thing, which is essential as enviromentaly harmful as farming meat.

Whats your opinion on thiis?

Originally Posted by Time

I got a question for you debs..... ..............Whats your opinion on thiis?

Hi Time,
Those are good questions and I can only answer from my perspective so here goes. You are right, I try my darndest to avoid doing anything that will cause suffering to any creature that had a mother, or as you say, anything with a face. So I've learned which companies not only kill animals for food, but do tests on animals to see if the dishwashing soap for example will burn my eyes and I won't go into details on how they discover this. I'm sure that most can figure that out. I don't buy feather or down products, because these are ripped out of living ducks and geese on average, every six weeks until I would assume, they don't grow properly any more at which time they are slaughtered. Grab a handful of hair sometime and pull it out and that will give you an idea what the birds experience repeatedly and over half their bodies.

As for plants, they do not have a brain or a brain stem or nerve endings so their 'experience' of suffering is far different than an animals. I do think that any of the so-called reactions that some would like to point to as being evidence of 'suffering' or 'fear' of plants is more than likely a reaction to vibrations of energy because at our very base level, that is all that matter is, energy that vibrates and pulses. If you swish a pool of water with your hand, it causes ripples that move away from your hand. Is that fear or the result of pain?

Regarding the effect of plant farming on the environment, consider first that production of animals and the food that they eat causes manure, pesticide, herbicide and antibiotic runoff that impacts our environment. 85% of the worlds soy goes to feeding animals and that soy receives regular treatments with Roundup to kill weeds, not to mention pesiticides. It takes more feed (hay and soy products) to feed cattle for instance, than it does to feed humans, because keep in mind that a good percentage of that feed goes to produce energy for movement and manure. It is also necessary to consider that animals are also prodigious users of water and as well, the process of turning them into packaged products also uses vast quantities of water as slaughterhouses and plants are cleaned with what in effect is our drinking water.

And while cattle can be grazed on land that is not good for producing human food, the wildlife (i.e. natural predators) are killed off to protect those cattle. Wolves neared extinction in several of the states but were reintroduced in the 1990's in several areas. But unfortunately, Idaho and Montana have once again declared open season on them. Wild horses are also regularly rounded up by the BLM, taken off the land, and you the taxpayer, pay for the maintenance of those animals in small pens, all so that ranchers can graze their cattle, for free, on federal land. How benign is animal production?

Oil is a product of both plant and animal sources. And we humans had nothing to do with the whole process. The forests and bogs and plants died naturally and yes, we do all benefit from their deaths at this point. But at this point in our history, plastics can now be made of soy, which by the way is not all that healthy to consume for either us or the cattle that it is fed to. The plastics that are made of soy and corn are also biodegradable and so are less damaging to our environment.

Composting or throwing away apple cores and other vegetable products not only enable the spread of more food plants but are simply reptitions of what has transpired across the planet for aeons. It is a natural process that does only good for the earth, unlike the production of food animals. Throwing away or composting vegetable matter does not kill or harm lifes cycle.

I hope this explanation is clear and answers your questions. If anything isn't clear, I'd be happy to try again.

[BlueSky]

No one wants to cause harm where they feel that they might be causing harm.
Life style changes where we give up something for someone or something else are not about that though.
It doesn’t come from the head, it solely comes from the heart.
It bothers me to kill animals for my eating pleasure…………..period.
I feel that in my heart so much.
The plant argument is a head one for me. I don’t feel that in my heart.
I know you were not asking me but I replied anyways…lol
James