Observer vs Observed

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by sky123

'Buddhists think that feel that their world-view is 'right''

I personally haven't found this, neither have I found it being taught in any Suttas.

I reckon everyone thinks that their world-view is "right". Otherwise they would adopt a different view of the world.

This is apparent on this forum. So many differing ideas and opinions, and everyone thinking that their view is the correct one.

Peace

[sky]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I reckon everyone thinks that their world-view is "right". Otherwise they would adopt a different view of the world.

This is apparent on this forum. So many differing ideas and opinions, and everyone thinking that their view is the correct one.

Peace

In Buddhism ' Right View ' is not as we Westerners use right/wrong... It's a little deeper than our idea of Right as being correct. The nearest translation is something like ' Clear/Perfected Vision '.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by sky123

'Buddhists think that feel that their world-view is 'right''

I personally haven't found this, neither have I found it being taught in any Suttas.

The very idea of "Right View", stated earlier, even if not in any 'Sutta', implies that the purviewers of such idea think that there is such a thing and that their idea of 'it' is 'right'.

A few words for those who would be wise:

Mind games (and seductions) abound! There are many 'teachers' (Krishanmjurthi being just one!) and 'schools' of thought who/which advocate things like "See for yourself," who implicitly imply that what they 'see' (for themselves!) is 'accurate'!

The same pertains to those who pro-claim that they have transcended 'individuality' or 'person'hood! My recommendation: "Don't fall for them/it!"

[sky]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The very idea of "Right View", stated earlier, even if not in any 'Sutta', implies that the purviewers of such idea think that there is such a thing and that their idea of 'it' is 'right'.

A few words for those who would be wise:

Mind games (and seductions) abound! There are many 'teachers' (Krishanmjurthi being just one!) and 'schools' of thought who/which advocate things like "See for yourself," who implicitly imply that what they 'see' (for themselves!) is 'accurate'!

The same pertains to those who pro-claim that they have transcended 'individuality' or 'person'hood! My recommendation: "Don't fall for them/it!"

We can agree to differ.... There is no right/wrong in Buddhism

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The Essence (the built in code, program, or imperative!) of Life is Love - which can lead to one's becoming involved a fairly convoluted, or problematic, processes, including 'attachments
(to this or that cathexis), which is just one possible 'convolution' in said regard. Some think that stopping being Love-ing is the best (if not only!) way to not have/experience such 'problems'. I strongly disagree.

IMO, such 'aim' only results in peeps becoming 'vainly' focused on/obsessed with (or 'attached' to ) such stopping - which never lasts forever in any case, because, as I have said, Love is Life's, i.e. Spirit's, imperative, i.e. motive-ation. You might as well try to stop being 'you', IOW!

From my (downloadable) treatise, which contains much more on the subject:

... a formulaic approach to issues pertaining to Love and Joy won’t work even as a means of approximation because the human condition is complicated to the point of convolution by the fact that we are all born into and so naturally identify with bodies which are biologically geared to experience Love and Joy in selfish (i.e., personal-gratification focused) ways. As anyone who has personally dealt with ‘problematic’ people has had ample occasion to intimately know, those so enthralled not only don’t see and appreciate the possibility and value of qualitatively better kinds of experiences and expressions of Love and Joy (i.e., of Life Itself) which would accrue if they chose to accept, embrace and act ‘in accord’ with the Love and Joy requirements of other co-related aspects of Life, but also often delusionally rationalize doing the very opposite of that as being the most Love and Joy enhancing (in their case, that is) way to go. To mention some of the more common, ultimately disaster-spawning emotional ‘sinks’ which such folks are prone to getting sucked into: fear, greed, and hate are essentially just demoniacally warped (by selfishness!) gestalts of insecure, dissatisfied and disappointed Love.

People who thus, more or less ‘blindly’ , not only fail to beneficially seed and nurture but also unduly detract from and unconscionably degrade the quality of Life’s Love and Joy flow present those of us who wish to holistically optimize and augment said process with troublesome issues to philosophically diagnose and situationally resolve (to whatever extent we may be able to pragmatically do so) as well as with potential impediments to circumnavigate (to whatever extent said issues remain intractable). In either case, the ‘task’ at hand – opportunity for soul maturation, really! – being to develop and implement the wisdom (self-mastery, really) necessary to do so without getting side-tracked (by the temptations of selfishness) from and losing sight (hence the idea of ‘lost’ souls) of Life’s indigenous goal, which is to maximally experience and express Love and Joy in the context of worldly, i.e. multi-nodal, existence.

davidsun, what love where you talking about that you put in red. Where you talking about Conditional love (love of/for the ego) or unconditional love (the love of our creator, which is love for everything without a condition such as value attached this love is non-duality, consciousness, oneness, isness, harmony, unity, peace, balance, etc etc)?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The very idea of "Right View", stated earlier, even if not in any 'Sutta', implies that the purviewers of such idea think that there is such a thing and that their idea of 'it' is 'right'.

A few words for those who would be wise:

Mind games (and seductions) abound! There are many 'teachers' (Krishanmjurthi being just one!) and 'schools' of thought who/which advocate things like "See for yourself," who implicitly imply that what they 'see' (for themselves!) is 'accurate'!

The same pertains to those who pro-claim that they have transcended 'individuality' or 'person'hood! My recommendation: "Don't fall for them/it!"

What J. Krishnamurti and others mean by "see for yourself" is self-realization/self discovery.

Self realization simply means to know my ego, my I, my me, my thinker, my experiencer as a hard real concrete fact. Why? Because nobody else's ego is able to know my ego (better) than my ego, that is a real hard concrete fact. You saying that self realization/self discovery is a mind game of seduction shows that you are not self-realized/self discovered, so how would you know? Your ego is labeling something negatively that your ego/experiencer did not experience thus does not understand. Does you doing that make sense to you, you doing that makes clear and perfect sense to me, why? Because of my personal self-relization/self discovery. Whom is playing ego mind games here?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by sky123

In Buddhism ' Right View ' is not as we Westerners use right/wrong... It's a little deeper than our idea of Right as being correct. The nearest translation is something like ' Clear/Perfected Vision '.

Yup, Clear/Perfected Vision comes to us through intuition not by searching our memory of past beliefs, knowledge, experiences etc etc. Intuition comes from consciousness, which of course is infinite thus, knows everything.

[sky]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Yup, Clear/Perfected Vision comes to us through intuition not by searching our memory of past beliefs, knowledge, experiences etc etc. Intuition comes from consciousness, which of course is infinite thus, knows everything.

I think Authentic Vision is another way of describing Clear Vision....

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by sky123

We can agree to differ.... There is no right/wrong in Buddhism

Yes, we can agree to differ, but my differing from you includes the fact that traditionally PUBLICIZED 'Buddhist' pronouncements which reference and emphasize "The Eightfold Path consists of eight practices: right view, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right samadhi ('meditative absorption or union') (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path) which at least suggests that there also 'wrong' ones in 'Buddhist' terms

SO the fact also is that the 'Buddhism' you are projecting(?) and talking about isn't akin to one that I am talking about.

Are we agreed on that fact?

Just attempting to keep you 'honest' if I can.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

davidsun, what love where you talking about that you put in red. Where you talking about Conditional love (love of/for the ego) or unconditional love (the love of our creator, which is love for everything without a condition such as value attached this love is non-duality, consciousness, oneness, isness, harmony, unity, peace, balance, etc etc)?

I am talking about Love as the Essence-ial motive-ator of all Being and Becoming.