The man who was born blind

[sky]

Originally Posted by zastrakoza

Some other thoughts for consideration…

Ok, so a man cannot sin before he is born. What about his parents. Were they without sin?

I agree with Molearner, this chapter is not about sin but about judgment. The Jews’ idea of karma was based in judgment (an eye for an eye). Therefore, the disciples assumed that the blindness (a bad thing) was a punishment for sins. Jesus said no one sinned, not the blind man, nor the parents, that is to say that Jesus took the law into his own hands and overruled it. For all judgment was given to Him (John 5:22), and His sacrifice ended sin (Hebrews 9:26). And that what people think is a “bad” thing or a punishment is really a good thing. Because there is no judgment without the law. Freedom from the law means everything is good (no tears, no pain, no sorrow). But if you cling to the law, your sin remains.

Now the pharisees held a court case on the matter, because it was a broken law, to judge Jesus. They tried to get the blind man and the parents to provide evidence that Jesus broke the law of the sabbath, which they would not do. The blind man wisely used the scriptures to defend Jesus, saying that He could not be a sinner and wield the power of God (v. 24-34). In another case, he was convicted (John 5:9-10).

The first covenant was to teach the inadequacy of any reality based on matter. It issued a law that no man could uphold perfectly in the flesh. Therefore, all knew that all (flesh) were sinners (that is to say fell short of perfection) and that God was only appeased with a blood sacrifice (that is to say perfection). And this was to be executed until the judgment of works. Verse 4 says that the first covenant was by works (the law), but that works were about to end. After the judgment no more sin would exist. People tend to want to take this literally as a utopian world, but Jesus showed that it was freedom from the law that released sin by the new covenant which is love.

Z

There are so many interpretations of Karma, I personally follow Buddha's Teaching as it makes sense to me and that's where the idea of Karma originated. Your Post is interesting though and I enjoy reading the ideas of others
In Buddhism there is no concept of Sin so it's a completely different way of understanding Karma.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born? This is not my finding, I read it on a website, quite interesting choice of words, this shows how "secret knowledge" is hidden within these verses, the more I search, the more I find.

This is an excerpt from a longer detailed event.

Some claim it involves karma but there is nothing in these scriptures that would leave one to believe karma was involved.

The questioned asked by the OP was "Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born?"

Jesus gave the answer "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

The rest of the text indicate that the works of God became manifested.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

This is an excerpt from a longer detailed event.

Some claim it involves karma but there is nothing in these scriptures that would leave one to believe karma was involved.

The questioned asked by the OP was "Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born?"

Jesus gave the answer "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

The rest of the text indicate that the works of God became manifested.

The idea is that they asked that question, which, in biblical terms, make no sense, it's not possible to sin even before being born - "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth", this is how it starts, they knew right before that he was born blind and yet they asked that question, that ends with "that he was born blind", they were well aware.

I thought you can see what I am trying to show but you can't.. ( you = all ).

Did that man sinned even before being born and so he was born blind or his parents sinned? This is what they asked, the writer of that gospel, wrote that verse purposely this way, why ask if that man sinned if he was not even alive.

ThatMan
You may want to look closer at the word birth.
It's root comes from an age, a generation, a time, a nation.
So it would be blind from being born of this age or time or nation or generation.
Under the first man Adam corruptible flesh age.

It is different then a procreation type of birth.

So it is probably referring to born in the age of corruptible flesh.
Or into the sin nature or death age or spoilage.
I believe Jesus is saying it is no ones fault, it is the age he was born of.
Corruptible flesh and deformities prevail.
But his healing is a sign of a new age coming, brought about by God.
All death and corruption will be a thing of the past.
We will eat of the Tree of Life.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

The idea is that they asked that question, which, in biblical terms, make no sense, it's not possible to sin even before being born - "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth", this is how it starts, they knew right before that he was born blind and yet they asked that question, that ends with "that he was born blind", they were well aware.

I thought you can see what I am trying to show but you can't.. ( you = all ).

Did that man sinned even before being born and so he was born blind or his parents sinned? This is what they asked, the writer of that gospel, wrote that verse purposely this way, why ask if that man sinned if he was not even alive.

He sinned before he was born.... simple ' Rebirth '
Karma is carried from one life to another.

Originally Posted by sky123

He sinned before he was born.... simple ' Rebirth '
Karma is carried from one life to another.

Go tell that to children and parents in children's wards of hospitals.

"Your child is just experiences karma from a past life."

Makes no sense in my world.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

ThatMan
You may want to look closer at the word birth.
It's root comes from an age, a generation, a time, a nation.
So it would be blind from being born of this age or time or nation or generation.
Under the first man Adam corruptible flesh age.

It is different then a procreation type of birth.

So it is probably referring to born in the age of corruptible flesh.
Or into the sin nature or death age or spoilage.
I believe Jesus is saying it is no ones fault, it is the age he was born of.
Corruptible flesh and deformities prevail.
But his healing is a sign of a new age coming, brought about by God.
All death and corruption will be a thing of the past.
We will eat of the Tree of Life.

Good point, but it's refering to a physical birth, it's as clear as it can be..

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Good point, but it's refering to a physical birth, it's as clear as it can be..

Rebirth IS physical Birth

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Go tell that to children and parents in children's wards of hospitals.

"Your child is just experiences karma from a past life."

Makes no sense in my world.

This is difficult for me too but remember, you can't say that because you don't truly know.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Go tell that to children and parents in children's wards of hospitals.

"Your child is just experiences karma from a past life."

Makes no sense in my world.

Makes no sense to you because your not understanding Karma....