Saying "back, back, back"

[Redchic12]

Hey InFlux I tried that back back back and it really helped. I like it. Thanks!

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Hey InFlux I tried that back back back and it really helped. I like it. Thanks!

Great! :-)

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Gem

...At some stage you notice that the mind wandered off, so just resume meditation as you were. It's harder because
you have no way of drowning out the unintended mental noise that keeps distracting you...

Speak about your own self.
I so disagree with this statement said as if a fact; and always will when you write it.

It is simply not true...ok, for me.
Of course, we have the ability to 'drown out' distracting mental noise.
.
.

[sky]

[Originally Posted by Gem
...At some stage you notice that the mind wandered off, so just resume meditation as you were. It's harder because
you have no way of drowning out the unintended mental noise that keeps distracting you.]

You can just let it be, don't become attached and it won't distract you. If mental noise is distracting you it usually only happens when you first start to practice but it does get easier, just keep going....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Of course, we have the ability to 'drown out' distracting mental noise.

I don't say we don't have the ability. In fact I said it works. I merely pointed out first of all, if mindfulness is 'just observe', then intentionally generating thoughts is contradictory, and intentionally generating a louder sound to drown out chatter is different to the insight, 'so this the noise I'm living with from day to day'.

The other point made is verbalising aids with focus. Totally that works. But that's different to noticing how distracted you actually are. So when the mind can't pay attention for 30 seconds or a minute, and is really sticky on things, you could actually realise, 'wow, this how erratic and distracted i am throughout my daily life'.

If meditation is done for the state and experience you want, then be volitional, but if meditation is for the truth, insight, wisdom, then you have you stop volition and discover 'what is, as it is'. Either you want to 'see it as it is' or you want to 'make it as you want it to be'. Those can't go together.

Hence I think if you practice breath awareness, which is a mindfulness practice, don't generate any thoughts intentionally because generating volition is antithetical to the purpose of the meditation. However, back back back is a tiny bit, and the majority is 'just watching', so it's no biggie.

Personally I don't advocate it and am of the view it's a lot better to stop doing that, and I say all the reasons for my view, but I understand it's not the convention and most people actually promote volitional generation - but I'm not saying do this and don't do that - I'm just explaining the things and giving my reasons.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

If meditation is done for the state and experience you want, then be volitional, but if meditation is for the truth, insight, wisdom, then you have you stop volition and discover 'what is, as it is'. Either you want to 'see it as it is' or you want to 'make it as you want it to be'. Those can't go together.

Everyone Meditates for a reason and usually 'choose' to embark on this path as they are trying to decrease the experience of suffering and achieve a state a peace, and for many other reasons. Imo only....

Volitional.
'done of one’s own will or choosing; deliberately decided or chosen'

[sky]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Hey InFlux I tried that back back back and it really helped. I like it. Thanks!

Don't do that while practicing 'Walking Meditation', it could be dangerous

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by Gem

Totally that works. But that's different to noticing how distracted you actually are.

That's actually where I experienced the opposite: I think I now have a better chance of noticing what happens in the first few seconds of drifting off, when I start sliding on the slippery slope. Maybe you should try it (just for fun), it would be interesting to hear if you notice a difference (and if so, what that difference is).

[Gem]

Originally Posted by In Flux

I think I now have a better chance of noticing what happens in the first few seconds of drifting off, when I start sliding on the slippery slope.

Yes. From what you have said in your previous couple of posts it is clear to me that you're aware of what's going on with yourself in meditation, and you understand what I'm talking about because you can see it for yourself. I'm personally not going to include any verbalisation for myself because as far as I'm concerned the meditation is not-doing. Hence, I can't reconcile the contradiction and it would make no sense for me to add a contradictory activity to my otherwise non-volitional approach. But don't get me wrong. I only explain the things and present my reasons for them, and have no authority whatsoever to persuade anyone in any way. I just trust my reason and logic is consistent and free of contradiction - that's all it is. I'm really just glad you can see what I mean, and maybe as time goes on we might discuss some more subtle nuances - but not necessarily agree .

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by In Flux

The idea is very simple: I repeat the word "back" in my mind, very rapidly (about 4 times a second). Actually, I only speak the word a few times, and then let it echo silently in my mind, so that it becomes a kind of unspoken pulse.

I like the idea, back, back, back. But meditation is not always back, back. What would one forward to? Once you have the wall at your back, then perhaps then you can say 'go forward to ..". IMHO, meditation has to have a purpose. :)