What I believe full enlightenment is

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

sounds right. the guru also has some spiritual gifts like leaving the body. these folks are putting all there devotion on it. and why they become so powerful.

i got into truck driving because i felt like it pays me for spiritual development. as driving is like a meditation. and my strength is with nature so as i drive i get a transmission from whats around me. but im trying to make enough money to be able to devote more of my time more directly like these folks are. i don't consider ever being able to all in like them. but they imspire me for the love of devotion and simplicity as a practice for spiritual development.

thank you for sharing!

If the guy was enlightened where would he go? What body would he leave? Would he not be all of it? All within him, no place to go.

Such traveling is dualistic and a sign of not being enlightened.

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

If the guy was enlightened where would he go? What body would he leave? Would he not be all of it? All within him, no place to go.

Such traveling is dualistic and a sign of not being enlightened.

then it becomes a philosophical debate. i dont necessarely disagree with what your saying. and i think these things can become a big block from bliss and silence if it becomes about the gift more than the other. but thats ok. my girlfriend runs as she calls it bliss off and on. silence. she likes it that way. she gave me a healing yesterday for my shoulder. noticed it is damaged a little. my shoulder responded and put her into what she calls running the bliss. today she perhaps isn't now. and for her she likes it that way. because the bliss makes her less productive and can't think as well. simply because her system isn't used to it from going off and on. and also she is more about being a psychic. thats her job and values that the most. so a variety of reasons can be like blocks. but to her its not. but a choice. she values one thing over the other.

anyways im just trying to say for a variety of reasons i think things from my view can be blocks. blocks to me cause i value bliss and silence over the other.

ok. going back to this guy astral projecting. i just drove myself down the road. ate some food once i stopped. typing words right now communicating to you. a couple days ago while meditating i was getting some psychic information. called my mom to see how she is doing. after im done typing. going to go use the bathroom. all of which is a doing. so dualistic. all the while experiencing the non dual of blliss and silence uninterrupted.

so i dont know what you mean exactly. if he is in the bliss and silence and its causeless, ongoing , no disruptions, and so on. non dual. and i would think since he is alive. he would just like everybody else engage in duality. experience the non dual while also experincing duality. i think its just a sing of a spiritual gift he has.

having and using spiritual gifts just like everything else doesn't disrupt the experience of the non dual. if it is to the point of permanence.

thats how i see it. but enlightement could mean a lot of things. its really not a word i use or think of. so i am simply responding based upon the experience of bliss and silence.

[running]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree that bliss is not relating to emotional relations but engaging with life always it seems has it's ups and downs so to speak.

When you said on the forums the other week / month about a financial situation you helped someone with you had to relate to the issues / sufferings of that specific situation and what the consequences of not finding the money would be.

If a loved one was suffering you would automatically respond by trying to alleviate their sufferings, correct?

If you were always in a permanent state of bliss, then you would not worry for them, you would have no reference for suffering.

You obviously were worried in this instance and in my eyes you can't be blissfully worried lol .

If bliss is beyond the emotion then bliss is beyond the intellect, and peeps can't be discussing the inns and outs of bliss without being intellectually minded.

If this is the case a blissful chap would be mentally and emotionally redundant and not functioning in day to day life activity lol ..

This does actually lead me into my experience of bliss where there was no thinking, no feeling, no functioning..


x daz x

good question. this is where there is so much confusion. emotions and the mind live on. bliss can not be impeded by such. but you still have a mind. you still have emotions. without those you would have no compass for life.

bliss from the body and mind is the dominant aspect of the living experince. emotions and the mind live on. bliss and silence act like a comforter to everything and sorta dissolves everything into it. in short. bliss and silence supercede what is.

bliss and silence take time to get used to. time to become open to. in the process of it becoming permenant. ways to experience it usually require something else to turn off or turn down. emotions. the mind. or whatever. that is because it needed that as leverage. or open up a bit for a brief period. over time the relationship builds. and then its there reguardless of what is.

[Questions]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hello Questions. If you are speaking to me, I didn't say that we couldn't continually experience the sublime joy of being. I said that we could (and may and do), alongside everything else we are and experience.
Did you see what I wrote? JIC, let me put it here again:


IMO, the fallacy is expecting to only experience one aspect of reality, as if awakening removes you in some way from the physical realm and drugs you or numbs you to anything but the pleasure receptors -- like a disembodied brain in a tub with electrodes. In fact, awakening does the opposite, grounding you ever more deeply in your heart centre and in your lived experience. The sublime joy of being and all that we are and experience, including the suffering and the pleasure, coexist with and within us and all that is.

So is that funnier? Or less funny?

Peace & blessings
7L

If what you mean with suffering as a mental thing then yes it will be no more when you are fully enlightened. He said thought and emotions will be silenced and return to their source, never arising on their own anymore.

Let's for a second imagine this guy is truly the buddha and he just said that, what does it say about you?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by running

good question. this is where there is so much confusion. emotions and the mind live on. bliss can not be impeded by such. but you still have a mind. you still have emotions. without those you would have no compass for life.

bliss from the body and mind is the dominant aspect of the living experince. emotions and the mind live on. bliss and silence act like a comforter to everything and sorta dissolves everything into it. in short. bliss and silence supercede what is.

bliss and silence take time to get used to. time to become open to. in the process of it becoming permenant. ways to experience it usually require something else to turn off or turn down. emotions. the mind. or whatever. that is because it needed that as leverage. or open up a bit for a brief period. over time the relationship builds. and then its there reguardless of what is.

For sure this is the confusing part I would say, for I cannot understand an angry man that is responding emotionally to life and getting irritated and such likes still proclaim to be at the same time blissful.

If one can still engage with life, with worry and anger and frustrations it doesn't reflect a blissful dude or dudette.

I know and understand that after the realization of Self one can live life with expressing these emotional traits and these traits will not negate or nullify what has been realized but in my eyes bliss is bliss and bliss is likened to nirvana for use of a better word.

When there is complete Love, there is no room for fear or hate and in the same vein, when there is bliss there is no room for anger or irritation ..

I think in regards to bliss we are not speaking about the same bliss because you say that different emotions are still expressed while bliss is still present.

One would have to ask themselves why are they angry. What a lot of super duper guru types do is say that it is not their anger it is the false self's anger or the lower self .. lol ... (always passing the buck)


x dazzle x

[running]

Originally Posted by God-Like

For sure this is the confusing part I would say, for I cannot understand an angry man that is responding emotionally to life and getting irritated and such likes still proclaim to be at the same time blissful.

If one can still engage with life, with worry and anger and frustrations it doesn't reflect a blissful dude or dudette.

I know and understand that after the realization of Self one can live life with expressing these emotional traits and these traits will not negate or nullify what has been realized but in my eyes bliss is bliss and bliss is likened to nirvana for use of a better word.

When there is complete Love, there is no room for fear or hate and in the same vein, when there is bliss there is no room for anger or irritation ..

I think in regards to bliss we are not speaking about the same bliss because you say that different emotions are still expressed while bliss is still present.

One would have to ask themselves why are they angry. What a lot of super duper guru types do is say that it is not their anger it is the false self's anger or the lower self .. lol ... (always passing the buck)


x dazzle x

i have three words for you. repeat them over and over like a mantra. or research what it is and what it can do. HUMAN NERVOUS SYSTEM.

not trying to give you a hard time. its not just you that doesn't understand what a nervous system does or can do. another word if it still doesn't make sense. ectsasy. ectsasy. Think. think. what is this tellng you? non dual. always. ectstatic joy from the nervous system. one can have a mind and an emotion while the nervous system does what it does.

beyond that. it has to be experienced to fully understand. and when i mean experinced. i mean around the clock. a glimpse doesn't paint the story. until then people will bash gurus and folks like me whom experience it and talk about it. i have no issue with that. i remember not knowing. and life is totally different when the nervous system is on filling the body with joy. flushing out emotions and the mind like a river makes its way to the ocean.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by running

i have three words for you. repeat them over and over like a mantra. or research what it is and what it can do. HUMAN NERVOUS SYSTEM.

not trying to give you a hard time. its not just you that doesn't understand what a nervous system does or can do. another word if it still doesn't make sense. ectsasy. ectsasy. Think. think. what is this tellng you? non dual. always. ectstatic joy from the nervous system. one can have a mind and an emotion while the nervous system does what it does.

beyond that. it has to be experienced to fully understand. and when i mean experinced. i mean around the clock. a glimpse doesn't paint the story. until then people will bash gurus and folks like me whom experience it and talk about it. i have no issue with that. i remember not knowing. and life is totally different when the nervous system is on filling the body with joy. flushing out emotions and the mind like a river makes its way to the ocean. making it an unfair advantage. i wish everybody to open to it. everyone would be much happier. which is why i talk about it all i can.

Can you be feeling both ecstasy and anger at the same time?

Can you see why it doesn't add up for me?

Permanent bliss or ecstacy is not allowing anger or irritation or worry to be expressed ..

It's like oil and water they don't mix ..

What I do understand however is that you can realize what you are and still be open to a change in emotion because the nature of life's experience is changeable.

You are in someway trying to divide this bliss or ecstacy with being angry ..

I don't think any amount of research is going to help me on this score, you are either blissfully happy or you are not, you can't be both at the same time.

Perhaps other's who are reading along with this have their thought's on the matter, for I can't make sense of it at all ..


x dazzle x

[running]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Can you be feeling both ecstasy and anger at the same time?

Can you see why it doesn't add up for me?

Permanent bliss or ecstacy is not allowing anger or irritation or worry to be expressed ..

It's like oil and water they don't mix ..

What I do understand however is that you can realize what you are and still be open to a change in emotion because the nature of life's experience is changeable.

You are in someway trying to divide this bliss or ecstacy with being angry ..

I don't think any amount of research is going to help me on this score, you are either blissfully happy or you are not, you can't be both at the same time.

Perhaps other's who are reading along with this have their thought's on the matter, for I can't make sense of it at all ..


x dazzle x

i cant help you. you need to do some study on the human nervous system.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Questions

If what you mean with suffering as a mental thing then yes it will be no more when you are fully enlightened. He said thought and emotions will be silenced and return to their source, never arising on their own anymore.

Let's for a second imagine this guy is truly the buddha and he just said that, what does it say about you?

Hello Questions.
TBH I am not a slavish follower of anyone , I see no one as the final or sole arbiter of truth, and in fact I wouldn't actually put Siddharta above many other mystics, truthtellers, and wayshowers. However, what the Buddha has said is to know the emptiness but do not dwell there. That is the only "place" thought and emotion no longer arise because they do not exist. They are "silenced" in the amorphous One.

I, along with many others here, acknowledge that the sublime joy of being coexists along with all that you are, which is human -- i.e., an incarnated individuated consciousness. Where our enlightened mind is in free and open service to our enlightened heart centre.

The description of thought and emotions being "silenced" is not in fact a good one, if it causes confusion and misdirection. Day-to-day and moment to moment, it is not that thought and emotions do not arise, but rather that they are (and can be) balanced and centred in their arising, in lovingkindness and equanimity. Awakening is not the promise we will "feel" 100% feely bliss 24/7 and *nothing* else, hahahaha. If that is however what we seek, drugs and lifestyles of pleasure-seeking abound to cater to that, in whatever particular ways we might desire.



Awakening is, in essence, both consciousness-raising and also centred heart expansion in lovingkindness and equanimity. Just one or just the other is partial or still in transition.
Awakening is, day-to-day, knowing that we can take choices regarding our thoughts and emotions...it is, day-to-day, knowing we can (and must) take ownership of our thoughts and emotions, that we can school them and submit our thoughts and emotions to our ethical and moral principles and set them on a path of right-alignment...it is awareness of this great mystery of being, and the infinite unfolding of illumination and perspective...and yes, it is experiencing the sublime joy of being* 24/7, alongside whatever else we are thinking or feeling. It is all these things that comprise the day-to-day being of awakening.

(*This sublime joy of being is also referred to as ananda, or the supreme joy of being, without which the universe could not exist.)



I'm happy to continue a pleasant conversation and explore these things, if you are truly interested.
If you wish to debate further or more intensely, LOL, please engage another or you may prefer the Buddhism subforum.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by running

i cant help you. you need to do some study on the human nervous system.

Why can't you just explain to me in your own words through your own experience/s how you can be feeling permanently blissful or permanently in a state of ecstacy that is beyond emotion and yet still respond to an array of emotions like irritation and anger at the same time.

To be honest I don't want to study or research pages of stuff about the nervous system, I am not really interested, I am more interested in your experience of both feeling emotions of anger or worry while also being ecstatic at the same time.

I believe however that it is possible to feel mixed emotions, like feeling happy and sad at the same time, the loss of my parents as an example brought me a mixed bag of emotions, both deep sadness for myself and happiness for my parents for being in a better place ..

This I understand full well because it has been my experience, so I hope you will understand why I am asking you how one can be cursing something one minute while also being in a permanent state of ecstacy that is beyond emotion ..

Who is being angry? Who is being ecstatic?

Do you feel that you are blissful or ecstatic because it's hard to understand how you can relate to it when it is beyond the sense of feeling ..


x daz x