karma

dreamer - -

Check PM's.

Hey Glorymist,

For some reason the image of 'Reeves and Mortimer' springs to mind in true handbag raising and clutching style! Obviously there's nothing personal towards handbags intended here. Again...only a description though.

Non~doership for me means a real~life living of all that~is simply as it is occuring without the intervention of an illusory identity who believes they are seperated from other.

There is no seperate identity here who believes they are typing these words on a screen and therefor non~attachment to any theory or constructed idea of what is intellectually typed.

Everything happens in and of itself as it's always been and to either discuss or type it is just another ** concept which cleverly distracts from the real breathing, seeing, touching, awarenessing of what~is.

There can be a noticing of certain words like 'no~thing' which triggers a thought story response from an identified and illusory self which then attempts to attack or defend what the illusory self may 'think' is meant by that reacted~to word.

This illusory doer can even spend what it thinks is time jumping from forum to forum intellectually 'correcting' projected dualism onto others which it can conviently then use to intellectually quide as a believed in and seperate doer of that.

Ofcourse this is just unicity or oneness having the experience of limitation through an identified and believed~in person who climbs to the top of the spiritually and elite role of teacher/corrector whilst oneness delights in the futility of divine puppetry.

Now these words may or may not resonate with a seperate reader of them, and there may be requests for more clarification because the seperate self is projecting avoidance onto apparent others which is a clever way of not recognising that in the character which projects it, I dunno, maybe.

In that sense it's no more or less any nearer or further from the truth or ** that has ever been written, typed or disscussed...unless there is an identified and seperate doer who believes the words that they type are actually the thing the words themselves are not.

Is there a correct way to describe a fart or, for that matter, describe anything, simply because the description itself is not the described.

So, in short, 'personal doer~ship' can be a really clever and believed~in concept for a phantom which has absolutely no existence what~so~ever because it is only the divine at play and therefor oneness miss~identified as you/me/them/us/we...words.

Oh, I just farted again, please excuse me, I do wish I could share the reality of the smell of that with words, but alas, that would silly trying to share the immediacy of what~is with dualistic and represented words...and that would be a divine miss~conception to ignore the simple fact of limitation within the unlimited whole.

Phew, what a stench, if only enlightenment meant my farts smelled of roses...but that would be just as ignorant to achieve as a seperate seeker who thinks liberation can be crept up and held onto by a devote grabber of concepts.

TeeHee...s****** s******,

BibbyBobJim.

Bob23 - -

I thank you ! ! I really do.

I'm gonna back up a bit. In fact - - a lot ! ! Between what I am finding in the links in other forums that people have left in reference to intent / non-duality / no-thing / oneness / unicity / etc. - - and what you have told me - - it is obvious that there is a move going on that I was totally unaware of ! ! I mean - - totally ! !

People always suggested books and such in their forum entries. I never went to look at them. For the most part - - they were just the latest metaphysical fads that were sweeping thru the current viewpoints and I just thought - - they were the same as they have always been.

I was wrong ! ! There is a real move to subvert and con some very basic fundamentals of Life. I should have known ! ! I mean - - that's the way this world has gotten to where it is now - - to always con, manipulate, degrade, lessen, cheapen. To get the individual to accept that new viewpoint as being more valid or a "new revelation" and to follow it rather than the actual core teachings. All in such small steps. Almost unnoticeable.

Now - - there's a real move by various Forces to get some spiritual principles down into the mental areas. I already alluded a bit to that. And with your reply - - Bob23 - - I can see that it is probably more alive and well than I ever thought. What is being urged for people to move towards and accept - - is probably exactly what I should have figured to happen. Now that I see it - - it makes perfect sense. It's almost a perfect con ! ! Its beautiful.

I will try to gather some thoughts on all of this and just - - post it here over the holidays.

Bob23 - - I want to thank you for finally getting down to it all. I am sensing that it was not "you" that I was trying to get to more or less define what your terms and beliefs are - - but more this whole new movement that is so blurring the semantics of the various concepts and words that it is all just kinda slurring behind "nothing" and "oneness" and such.

And Bob23 - - check PM's.

Thanks again for your clarifications. They help. They help me to get a bit more understanding at this latest movement. It is rare that people can actually witness the re-writing of major concepts of Life. Almost like establishing a new religion. And if people take to this - - and it seems to be offered in a way that it is MOST alluring - - then their Paths will become much more adventurous - - I guarantee it ! !

HeH

Hey Glorymist,

Exactly!

There have been many a time when a particular word or phrase or link has been offered and the consciousness has simply identified all of that with what it associated it to mean in the past, when all that may have been offered was something completely different to all of that.

Ofcourse this is only a comment about the constant invitation to see how quickly and readily the thinking mind will jump to a conclusion without even allowing for an open investigation into the possibility of seeing beyond the words and finding the truth clothed in what seems like a complete lie on the face of it.

There have been some wonderful little gems found hidden in plain vew of what can be called 'New Age Fluff', which, generally and for the most part, seem to contain more 'fluffy' mesmerism for those it apparently and divinely hypnotizes.

On the other hand, a complete down~and~out bum on the street could spout totally unexpected (to the judge~mental mind) pearls of wisdom from time to time.

Oneness or Eness seems to love the game of hide and seek (chase me chase me) when, in fact, the very act of seeking can hide what is looked for right here under the very nose of the seeking mind who simply and divinely 'thinks' that it must be somewhere which is NOT here, and here, and here, and here...ad infinitum.

It's a kind of grace that seems to recognise the fact of how little 'I' really know...and all 'I' am left with, is the constant and very liberating sense of the 'unknown' in this occurance of what~is.

But, again, all of those words can mean a myriad of different things to the one reading them and also be celebrated from the apparent writers view as pointers or sign~posts to something else which the words, in themselves, are not that which they point to.

Have fun,

Bob23 - -

There is an old saying / principle in the rather lofty worlds - - and that old saying is - - "words are the greatest architecture of all."

Yes - - beyond the worlds of duality - - and we'll get more into that soon - - there is no need for words. But while here - - and 99.9999999(etc.)% of all individual Souls in existence are "here" in these lower worlds of duality - - mainly because it IS the school room for Soul Itself - - while here in these worlds - - words are where it's at. It's what we have to use - - to contend with - - to understand - - to build with - - to dismiss with - - to overlook / duck / con / manipulate / and run in fear from.

There is no facet or aspect of the school room that says - - "Okay - - let's not use words anymore to learn these lessons in the lower worlds." It doesn't work.

Yes - - there is time for "silence" and all of that. There are times for visualized symbols - - and all of that.

But it MIGHT (just MIGHT) be very, very wise for you to begin taking words a bit more seriously than you do. Yes - - there is plenty of LIFE beyond words. But right now - - when in Rome - - do as the Romans do.

Words are here for a reason.

Just - - consider.

It seems to me that there is confusion caused when a serious point is made with an "unserious" tone. Would you say to a Zen master that he should be more serious when he asks what sound one hand clapping makes? or would you maybe have more respect for someone who you perceived to be enlightened?

Sometimes if a point is made seriously over and over again it becomes open to ridicule, even if it is right. This is also something to consider, maybe the words are being written to express something so simple that it is almost impossible to end up sounding serious, if they are read from a certain rationalist point of view.

Bob your words make total sense to me and i can see that they are being totally misinterpreted - for what thats worth. Gorymist you make some good points and some interesting points too, but you are arguing with bob and myself about something which if you took one step back you may see you fundementally agree with.

I think the point is this, if one is able to be fully present in the moment then the universe reveals itself. It is through accepting/surrendering/being fully present that peace is attained and at that point the illusion falls away and new experiences can be had in the clarity of reality - this what is, as it is. As preconceptions fall away, the higher planes are revealed if that is how you want to label them, if not you can just enjoy an amazing experience, that by the way is only so amazing because it is a release from the preconceptions that you have formed in creating this "reality" which is an illusion in the first place.

Peace is the key, and although bob can sometimes use an unpeaceful tone, as i have too, his words are always pointing towards this fact.

Dreamer - -

It doesn't surprise me that you agree with Bob23. In fact - - I would say that many - - if not most - - do.

If I "stepped back" and began to accept this - - then I might as well go out and buy a bottle and just keep 'em coming - - because I have sold out ! ! And I would have to accept as truth what I know is NOT true.

You can be fully aware and present in the moment - - and that is exactly what that experience will be. You will be aware of your world and what is going on around and within you at the moment. There is no mystery there.

For many people - - "peace" is the ultimate goal or state sought. To finally train the mind to silence its chattering for a while and give respite - - is wonderful ! ! But it is only the beginning of the true adventure.

As I told Bob23 somewhere else - - if all of what I said was an opinion - - I would tell you that. If all I said was a firm belief - - I would tell you that too. But I am telling you neither - - because what I say is neither opinion nor mental belief.

This "infamous" entry about non-duality and such follows this one. I figured I'd reply to you - - dreamer - - before I put it in. Maybe it will clarify a bit. Maybe it will only muddy the waters even more.

Such is the way of the Path.

Believe as you wish.

To all who may be curious - -

I am a touch hesitant as I begin this entry. I know I am about to take on mainstream beliefs and may be opening up a massive can of worms by suggesting what I am about to say. So - - I am simply offering this as "interesting information" and you can do with it as you wish. It is not up for debate. It is simply "what is going on" - - but there is no way that I can "prove" it - - for to do so - - is to prove existence beyond the so-called Lower Worlds of Duality - - which - - I cannot prove. No one can. So - - I can only offer this based on the fundamentals of what I know of these worlds from direct travel within them.

The entire existence of and within the Lower Worlds is made out of the Universal Mind stuff - - by whatever name you wish to call it - - located very high in the Mental Worlds themselves. The various Forces that govern the structure and maintenance of all of this - - their purpose and goal is to keep Soul trapped here in these lower worlds - - for one reason and one reason only. It is to teach Soul more of who and what It is by immersing It in what It is not ! ! Soul gets caught up in the illusion of what It is not, but believes it to Its very core. Soul is out of Its "element" here - - and must perceive life around It thru the workings of the various bodies / layers / sheaths established to protect it from the harsh vibrations in these worlds which would prohibit Soul from being able to "exist" here in the first place.

The nature of the school room is to keep Soul here at ALL costs. The battle is NOT - - fair ! ! As I have suggested to a few others - - all of this is set up the way it is because it works ! ! Wonderfully so ! ! The intent and ability to keep Soul here is mostly based on convincing It to accept a mental approach to the understanding of Life Itself. So - - if various Forces can take concepts that lie outside of the worlds of duality - - and bring a mental approach / understanding / acceptance to these concepts - - they then "bring them back down" into the mental worlds and the con is complete.

That is what is happening now - - and variations on all of this - - and much, much more will continue until these worlds end their current cycle of existence - - which is a LONG ways off from now.

I have run across some links in other forums that have led me to some sites that promote what I am specifically discussing here. Below are a few quotes from the various articles - - and all of these deal in some way with the whole duality / non-duality / nothing bit - -

1) - - In other words, the real world is not given to you twice--one out there, one in here. That

Close to 5 hours later - - I am back.

This second entry has to do with intent - - and its meaning. I ran across an article that termed the concept of "intent" in this way - -

"In the universe there is an unmeasurable, indescribable force which sorcerers call intent. Absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link. Sorcerers, warriors, are concerned with discussing, understanding, and employing that connecting link. Sorcery at this level could be defined as the procedure of cleaning one

Hello Glorymist,

I find your posts very interesting. We seem to share some beliefs. Others are obviously of your own personal interpretation of your experience thus far. From the things that I’ve read of yours and the passion of your statements it seems to me that you think you have found this big answer ( which I’m sure without a doubt that you have) and why cant we all just see it the way you see it. But I’ll give you this bit of advice. There isn’t just one way. There isn’t just one path. I have my own belief system that with every fiber of my being I know it is the way it works. And there is a whole planet here and an entire cosmos filled with planets full of conscious beings who feel the same way. There is a never ending way of paths to take and when we get to the end of the one we have so diligently followed for lifetimes upon lifetimes we will come to realize that there is another set of newer more complex and profound beliefs to follow and the same thing at the end of that one and on and on forever. It can be explained in an infinite number of ways and in the most complex manners to the most ridiculous but it all boils down to the simple and pure LOVE of the creation of it all.


Yours truly , Creator