Jesus was a rebel

[LadyMay]

Originally Posted by Shaunc

Quite a few spiritual leaders went against the norm of the time. Jesus as you say was one for sure, the Buddha taught against the caste system and permitted women to ordain, quite outrageous 2500 years ago in India. Gandhi could probably also be put into this category as could Lao Tzu in China who incidentally was no fan of Confucius and wasn't particularly worried who knew about it which again would have taken a lot of courage 2500 years ago in China.
I suppose it's quite par for the course with spiritual leaders. I'm sure that if you went through a book of Catholic and Buddhist saints you'd probably find that it's a fairly familiar story.

Very good insight. Perhaps these religious figures were just political revolutionaries.

[LadyMay]

Originally Posted by django

I think Jesus actually considered himself to be an observant Jew, but he did seem to break the Law, though like Molearner pointed out whether he broke the Law or not was disputable. But then Jesus was interpreting scripture in a new way perhaps, a way that suited the Law breaking he felt compelled to do from compassion.

Nice point, maybe

[Kine Lea]

Originally Posted by django

I always thought 'him who sent me' was his 'Father', though I can see how you could read John the Baptist.

Well 'him' not being capitalized is certainly interesting.
The quoted verse, 38 in Chapter 9, is immediately followed by (39) a question to Jesus from the disciple, John.
I asked my Bible Group leader what consequences this might behold if the disciple John were "the allegedly" beheaded Baptist!

Sadly, the possibilities are too wonderous to be true.

[Shaunc]

Originally Posted by Estelwen

Very good insight. Perhaps these religious figures were just political revolutionaries.

I think that they were more than just political revolutionaries but I'd say most, if not all, were political revolutionaries as well as spiritual leaders.

[carebear]

A rebel opposes authority, he was a peace maker and more replaced views with greater righteousness, based on love and peace.We taking small groups here. Perhaps he want a rebel as much as a big problem

[Kine Lea]

Originally Posted by Gwen

A rebel opposes authority, he was a peace maker ...

Fair point.
But as the original post sites Mark's Gospel it may be of some interest to make inquiry about Elijah and Moses, who stood with Jesus on the mount of Transfiguration. Both ancient world prophets were extreme rebels ...

When Jesus and the three apostles are going back down the mountain, Jesus tells them to not tell anyone "the things they had seen" until the "Son of Man" has risen from the dead. The apostles are described as questioning among themselves as to what Jesus meant by "risen from the dead".

There is no greater rebellious act than having risen from the dead.

[Shivani Devi]

Jesus does tend to employ a fair bit of histrionics just to prove a point, but he also performed miracles too, so we can forgive him for doing things like condoning unholy practices, trashing a market place, rescuing a prostitute...

[Amilius777]

Yeah but do you really think (since we are on a Christian forum) that Jesus the CHRIST was ever in the wrong?

If what the earliest followers spoke of him as absolute truth- "He was perfect, without sin, in the state of God, etc" that everything he did was perfect?

Since when is stopping an insane lunatic serial killer in town a bad thing? I kinda hate a lot of the puesdo-stuff going around where there is this allowing or acceptance of injustice but then there is a cry for justice.

Social justice, mercy, good faith, compassion, morality are the hallmarks of a God-realized society. And there is NONE presently on the Earth. There probably never was one because for some reason we haven't produced enough mystics only :religious people, rigid people, atheists, agnostics, and puesdo enlightened millionaires (Eckart Tolle, Oprah, Joel Osteen)

Yeah I said it. I bad mouthed Eckart Tolle the millionaire what are you all gonna do now?

-
Where did Jesus condone unholy practices? I don't recall him sacricifing goats and virgins and babies to Satan. Nor having massive orgies in a temple. I mean if you wanna get to the crux of what would be an "unholy practice" lets be serious here. If you mean he ate meat then were never going to get what is fundamentally "Unholy ritualizing".

Since when is it bad to trash a market being used in a temple? If you were the son of the One who created everything and saw a home dedicated to Him but then desecrated just to make money you'd probably have the Divine Anger that is justified. Remember Christ also predicted that he is the One who comes back and kills the antichrist. Jesus was nonviolent and compassionate but even God destroys planets, wipes out species, and brings destruction if needed.

Why is rescuing a prostitute a bad thing? Her circumstances and conditions in life may not have been great. sure she shouldn't have turned to prostitution but is giving your body for sex that awful of a sin? Think about this as a reasonable adult. Prostitution does cause other social sins and spreads STDs but why condemn someone because they are having multiple partners?

It just shows how much Jesus WASN'T a traditional religious person. Look at the people who do use "sex" for awful reasons and what he says about them- "It is better for a man who abuses a child to tie around his neck a milestone and cast himself to the bottom on the ocean"

Yeah you don't see the Catholic Church that often condemning their criminal priests. Usually its' -"Oh they need help. They are forgiven, but we gotta pray that the gay couple down the street turns straight."

Jesus wouldn't have any of this.

[Amilius777]

King lea you are on to something,

Jesus was a rebel to the man-made systems, to the illusions of this world, a rebel to the Satanic governing disordered Empires, a rebel to the material limitations,

but in the eyes of God, he was the perfect obedient peacemaker, truth speaker, and doer of the Divine Will.

In doing what is the Higher Good, the Transcendent Truth, these kinds of persons like all the above risk everything even "death" which is the ultimate illusion that Christ destroyed. The Soul when aligned perfectly with God even has power to suspend "natural laws" in their favor. Such an ability is not granted to us or the current Age until we have all passed "Under the Rod" in our current spiritual evolution. In the future for a more Spiritual Age we too will attain to the mastery that was seen in Christ.

But we have to do what is right by ourselves first. That is why the first thing Christ said was 'I am gonna break up families, brother against sister, son against father" etc. The family unit is usually all our starting points to learn how to break out of that matrix to a more expanding-Love which demands more from us.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

Yeah but do you really think (since we are on a Christian forum) that Jesus the CHRIST was ever in the wrong?

If what the earliest followers spoke of him as absolute truth- "He was perfect, without sin, in the state of God, etc" that everything he did was perfect?

Since when is stopping an insane lunatic serial killer in town a bad thing? I kinda hate a lot of the puesdo-stuff going around where there is this allowing or acceptance of injustice but then there is a cry for justice.

Social justice, mercy, good faith, compassion, morality are the hallmarks of a God-realized society. And there is NONE presently on the Earth. There probably never was one because for some reason we haven't produced enough mystics only :religious people, rigid people, atheists, agnostics, and puesdo enlightened millionaires (Eckart Tolle, Oprah, Joel Osteen)

Yeah I said it. I bad mouthed Eckart Tolle the millionaire what are you all gonna do now?

-
Where did Jesus condone unholy practices? I don't recall him sacricifing goats and virgins and babies to Satan. Nor having massive orgies in a temple. I mean if you wanna get to the crux of what would be an "unholy practice" lets be serious here. If you mean he ate meat then were never going to get what is fundamentally "Unholy ritualizing".

Since when is it bad to trash a market being used in a temple? If you were the son of the One who created everything and saw a home dedicated to Him but then desecrated just to make money you'd probably have the Divine Anger that is justified. Remember Christ also predicted that he is the One who comes back and kills the antichrist. Jesus was nonviolent and compassionate but even God destroys planets, wipes out species, and brings destruction if needed.

Why is rescuing a prostitute a bad thing? Her circumstances and conditions in life may not have been great. sure she shouldn't have turned to prostitution but is giving your body for sex that awful of a sin? Think about this as a reasonable adult. Prostitution does cause other social sins and spreads STDs but why condemn someone because they are having multiple partners?

It just shows how much Jesus WASN'T a traditional religious person. Look at the people who do use "sex" for awful reasons and what he says about them- "It is better for a man who abuses a child to tie around his neck a milestone and cast himself to the bottom on the ocean"

Yeah you don't see the Catholic Church that often condemning their criminal priests. Usually its' -"Oh they need help. They are forgiven, but we gotta pray that the gay couple down the street turns straight."

Jesus wouldn't have any of this.

You are using today's standards to rate/compare these acts, not the standards of society as it was 2,000 years ago, like I was doing. This is the fundamental difference here.