100% truth about body/mind relationship

Hi. Interesting posts. Here are my thoughts on this topic: Every emotion has a purpose :) . A fear (fight/ flight/ freeze) response is designed to protect us from danger. Anger might motivate us to act in a way that protects us from danger or in a way that puts right something that is unjust or wrong. I personally believe that anger is always a secondary emotion and something is under it. Our bodies respond to our emotions... our minds and our bodies are complementary. Sometimes our bodies know that something is amiss before our minds do. This natural phenomena is sometimes labeled as extrasensory because we generally try to deny the existence of instincts and intuition. Our minds and our bodies sometimes perceive danger when none is present. Sometimes this is because at some point, our bodies have been in danger in some similar situation. Maybe at some point a dog bit you. It was so long ago that you don't remember... you were a baby. Now when a dog is near (if this has not been conditioned out), your hair stands up, your heart speeds, your palms become sweaty, and you freeze. The freeze response is used when a situation appears hopeless and the fight/ flight response was not successfully used. It is seen many times in survivors of sexual abuse. It was used as a defense (it's a natural instinct witnessed in all types of prey animals... I could go more into it but I wont write a book ... but if you are interested, one source is "Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma by Levine ).

The body (and mind) has all types of messages for us about areas that need healing. The body holds memories that sometimes the mind does not. Both the body and the mind are channels for great joy and pain. The soul is also very intricately involved in this. This I tell ya, brother... you can't have one without the.... other. :p

[edit: ps... Topology: Great awareness that you held that or experienced that emotion in your chest! We sometimes hold emotions in our bodies and when we are not aware and they do not move up and out... they may become dis-ease!]

Originally Posted by Topology

Moke, it's interesting that before anyone raised it, you were already having to fend off objections to the use of 100%. Could it be that you have internal disagreement with yourself? It is a bold claim, but perhaps it is also brash and you know it because you had to defend yourself to yourself.

My metric and sense of rightness with thought comes in many many ways. An internal sense of confusion, not understanding, frustration, cloudiness, etc. All of these things indicate a lack of clear understanding. I can support arrive nan in that I feel anger is justified emotional response, a righteous wrath, to witnessing a violation to the Sacred. In this sense anger is not a negative emotion. And just as a point of difference, I experience my emotional movements, even my thoughts, in my chest.

No top that is not the case. I posted the thread and looked back and said to myself, "Hey if I say 100% there is going to be conflict between people. So I added that at the end after the fact that I made the thread. Why do you always try and find my faults? Please stop doing that. That's not the topic top.

Originally Posted by moke64916

No top that is not the case. I posted the thread and looked back and said to myself, "Hey if I say 100% there is going to be conflict between people. So I added that at the end after the fact that I made the thread. Why do you always try and find my faults? Please stop doing that. That's not the topic top.

You made it the topic by bringing it up. I just find it interesting that you are having to wrestle with objections that haven't even been made... If it is truth then it speaks for itself and doesn't need to be overstated or defended.

Is that so?

Top when you stop attacking my posts and refrasing them, then I'll talk.

[Saggi]

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

Docha...for me it means spirit near and in contact

This applies for me too NS.

And it's a beautiful feeling I associate with love, trust and peace.

Love and hugs

Jo

XxXx

Originally Posted by moke64916

I wasn't angry at all.

When someone says "you are starting to make me angry" after telling the person in all caps that their post is a disgrace to spirituality, people are going to see anger in that. Not to mention your defensive reaction when I pointed this out. If you don't want people to see that there is anger in you.... well....

I'm just saying, the problem is not me.

It's just not realistic. And I'm not afraid to say that it appears dishonest when someone claims they are always in a state of peace and etc. and just half an hour later says something that any realistic and observant person would know has anger in it.

And then.... when that is mentioned.... to blame the person who sees that there is obviously anger in the words "you are starting to make me angry", as if the person who sees something that obvious is doing something wrong....

Yes, I have anger at Moke. Because I know how people can be hurt when they try to follow someone who makes claims like this. It can be unhealthy for several reasons. There's the route where the person decides that they have achieved perfection and no longer feel anything other than peace and love and joy... but they actually do still feel anger and fear like a normal human. In that route, the person intentionally blinds themselves to their own emotions. The person feels things like anger and fear and etc, but because he/she is convinced that he/she is too perfect to ever feel such base negative emotions, the person just becomes unaware of their own emotions. That is not healthy. You can't deal with an emotion in a healthy way if you are not aware that you have it. The emotion is still there, still affecting your actions and showing itself in obvious ways that other people can see. Ask a few hundred random people what emotion they think is behind "you are starting to make me angry" is and most will respond that they see that there is anger in it. But someone who is intentionally struggling to remain unaware that they still have such negative emotions on occasion will respond to that by getting defensive and saying negative things about the person who has pointed it out.

And there's another route; the one of the person who has agreed that negative emotions like anger and fear should be eliminated and that if you just follow in Moke's footsteps you will achieve this.... but the person is not willing to simply become unaware of their emotions. They know they feel anger and fear still. They think, "what am I doing wrong? Why can't I get this right? Tell me how to achieve this perfect state of being in peace, joy, and love all the time like you have." Now, this is someone who feels some insecurity and seeks to get and maintain the teacher's approval. So if you show the words "you are starting to make me angry" to this person without telling who said them, they will most likely say that there is anger in them. However, if you show that quote while letting them know that the person they follow who has claimed to be always in a state of peace and love and etc is the person who said them... they might also defensively deny that there is anger behind it.... because if they say that there is apparent anger behind those words they would be chastised by the enlightened one as being immature and full of anger... losing the approval that they seek. This kind of person would have to blind himself/herself to the anger that exists in the person they follow, while chastising himself for the anger he knows he still feels because this is not the kind of person who will simply become unaware of his own emotions just to convince himself that he has achieved the goal of no anger. This is not healthy either.

And, quite frankly one of the reasons why I am angered to see the "I am always in a state of peace and joy and bliss", followed by "you are starting to make me angry" followed by "You judged me. How immature is that" when someone points out the discrepancy.... one of the reasons why this kind of tactic is one that I feel angry when I see it is because this is a tactic that some leaders of certain kinds of groups use to manipulate people. It doesn't work on me. I know that I still feel anger and fear and that there is judgement in it when I feel anger over seeing discrepancies and tactics like this because I know about the ways in which it can be unhealthy for people. I don't have a problem with my own anger and judgement, though. As far as I am concerned, it's okay to feel negative emotions and to see that there is a discrepancy in someone's words and to say something about it even if that person will call you immature for it. I do not seek Moke's approval. I feel secure in my own observations and even after suffering the blow of being called immature I still stand by my observations. I still see what I saw before I was called immature for seeing it.

I have read reports from people who have been affected by the possible unhealthy results of believing that one should be void of any negative emotion and only full of peace and joy and etc. all the time and then later became aware of the ways that this was affecting them. I used to believe that being in a state of peace and joy and what not all the time and having no negative emotions was the whole point... and later realized that this was unhealthy. When you believe that, you risk either beating yourself up for still feeling negative emotions, or becoming unaware of your own negative emotions that still exist in you and getting defensive about it when people point it out when they show in your actions. These don't happen to everybody who strives to be in perfect bliss all the time, but it happens often enough and it is unhealthy enough that those who used to follow leaders of a group that promote this idea and then join a support group for ex-members of such groups often bring up the topic of how much this affected them in an unhealthy way that was not easy to recover from. I know this because I have read their posts in the support groups where they discuss how the "I'm always in a state of joy" followed by "there is something wrong with you if you ever see that there is some negative emotions behind any of my actions" tactic has done harm to people. That is why I feel anger over it, and I don't mind admitting that I have this anger.

I had been up for over 24 hours. Sure your right I coluld of worded it different. I deleted it. Just let it go. I'm not thinking about it anymore. I'm well aware of what I am doing. Let bygones ** bygones. I made things right. Now just let it go. It's not healthy to hold resentments. But I can say this. You cannot judge me in general based on 1 post. Peace.

My, my, this is bringing out a challenge to beliefs in people. Good show moke. Lol

Do you all really believe that moke is set in his ways and wont ever change his viewpoint? I have read posts that have mentioned his change of perceptions, as viwed by others...

I actually laughed at the 100% myself...

But even if he were serious, its true for him at the moment.

One man's truth is another man's lie - someone else (why can i never remember who said these things?)

Like night spirit said before, some of it conflicts with her experience, mine too..but psychology and spirituality go hand in hand. To master the spiritual you must master the mind, to master the mind you must master the spiritual. They build upon each other.