walk away from painful issues with mother?

apologies to anyone who has seen this subject in another thread already.. i decided to repost it in a more appropriote forum.

This post touches on a very a sensitive issue i am experiencing in my life right now, and if i may seek some opinions and guidance on this. sorry if it is long winded and i will say beforehand this isnt an exercise for me to judge my mum or put her down but to give an insight into the situation.

My mum is an extremely difficult person, swallowed by bitterness and envious of others material gains and happiness, she has spent her life makign friends, dumping friends, marrying and then destroying each relationship and then dumping them too, she tends to try and imitate what makes others happy in thier lives in hope it will bring happiness to hers too, when it doesnt she finds reason to dispose of this person,though she will never admit responsibilty for anything , i have known times where she has blantantly lied ( even with witnesses) or found reason to blame the other people, she's very materialistically driven and can be abit cut throat about it , constantly chasing money and spending it on whims, from my view trying to fill an empty void to no avail, this saddens me alot, i have tried to talk with her and have touched on her finding inner peace and then the rest will follow. her greatest fear is to end up like her own mother, alone day after day in a care home with no visits from her children till the day she dies.

what is causing me great distress at times now , is where this has led her to right now, my eldest brother ( her 1st born) refuses to engage with her unless she's willing to talk about her treatment of him and his family ( she shows little interest in her 1st grandchild ) my other brother ( her 2nd born) lives in SA and though he stays polite is quite happy she is not directly in his life, and now her 4th marriage has been tossed aside.. and it seems i became the target of her bitterness, anything from the fact that i am being supportive to her ex who has tried suicide numerous times, to attacking me about my parenting, being scornful and malicious that i was left inheritance by my step dad whom she divorced but tried to get back with after his terminal diagnosis when refused she met her lastest ex and was engaged within 5 days of meeting him and married by 6mths. she has lied about me , bad mouthed me at every oppourtunity, screamed abuse in my face and at my children when in her care though she openly favours my eldest daughter and has done since birth, when my 2nd daughter came along 3 yrs later, my mum took no time waiting to tell her at the tender age of 3 that she was not as nice as my eldest, not to mention infront of my children in conversation wishing their grandad would just drop dead, ( 2 mths prior to him actually passing so you can imagine the impact that had) for 3 years i have bitten my tongue, extremely difficult but i have tried until recently, where i had to draw a line .... and i told her that unless things change , and that she seeks help our relationship will not work and that i cannot continue it , she has deleted and blocked me form her fb account, told numerous terrible lies, and will not admit anything, crying to others that she does not deserve this and that i leave alot to be desired as a daughter as i am too busy being independent and organised.

now i understand it is her path, and that i cannot make her seek help or realise , she has to do this herself, but right now she has moved yet again for the 5th time in 2 yrs, and she is living in a place where she knows no one , family and friends are not around as she has either dumped them or they have put distance between her and them. I can see that she is heading for her greatest fear and it breaks my heart, i cant just walk back in and go back to square one but it doesnt make me happy to know shes on her own.. the emotional strain this causes is intense, if i let her back in before she makes any changes then my kids well being and my own are at risk emotionally and if i dont hers is.

i mean is it ever really truely acceptable to walk away? and with out harbouring guilt that will no doubt hold my own growth back, i'm working on the guilt as i know its not my fault and this is her path , her journey but its sucks knowing that your mum is living in her own worse fear come true :'(

any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated and sorry its so long
blessings
x x x

Originally Posted by geminilite

apologies to anyone who has seen this subject in another thread already.. i decided to repost it in a more appropriote forum.

This post touches on a very a sensitive issue i am experiencing in my life right now, and if i may seek some opinions and guidance on this. sorry if it is long winded and i will say beforehand this isnt an exercise for me to judge my mum or put her down but to give an insight into the situation.

My mum is an extremely difficult person, swallowed by bitterness and envious of others material gains and happiness, she has spent her life makign friends, dumping friends, marrying and then destroying each relationship and then dumping them too, she tends to try and imitate what makes others happy in thier lives in hope it will bring happiness to hers too, when it doesnt she finds reason to dispose of this person,though she will never admit responsibilty for anything , i have known times where she has blantantly lied ( even with witnesses) or found reason to blame the other people, she's very materialistically driven and can be abit cut throat about it , constantly chasing money and spending it on whims, from my view trying to fill an empty void to no avail, this saddens me alot, i have tried to talk with her and have touched on her finding inner peace and then the rest will follow. her greatest fear is to end up like her own mother, alone day after day in a care home with no visits from her children till the day she dies.

what is causing me great distress at times now , is where this has led her to right now, my eldest brother ( her 1st born) refuses to engage with her unless she's willing to talk about her treatment of him and his family ( she shows little interest in her 1st grandchild ) my other brother ( her 2nd born) lives in SA and though he stays polite is quite happy she is not directly in his life, and now her 4th marriage has been tossed aside.. and it seems i became the target of her bitterness, anything from the fact that i am being supportive to her ex who has tried suicide numerous times, to attacking me about my parenting, being scornful and malicious that i was left inheritance by my step dad whom she divorced but tried to get back with after his terminal diagnosis when refused she met her lastest ex and was engaged within 5 days of meeting him and married by 6mths. she has lied about me , bad mouthed me at every oppourtunity, screamed abuse in my face and at my children when in her care though she openly favours my eldest daughter and has done since birth, when my 2nd daughter came along 3 yrs later, my mum took no time waiting to tell her at the tender age of 3 that she was not as nice as my eldest, not to mention infront of my children in conversation wishing their grandad would just drop dead, ( 2 mths prior to him actually passing so you can imagine the impact that had) for 3 years i have bitten my tongue, extremely difficult but i have tried until recently, where i had to draw a line .... and i told her that unless things change , and that she seeks help our relationship will not work and that i cannot continue it , she has deleted and blocked me form her fb account, told numerous terrible lies, and will not admit anything, crying to others that she does not deserve this and that i leave alot to be desired as a daughter as i am too busy being independent and organised.

now i understand it is her path, and that i cannot make her seek help or realise , she has to do this herself, but right now she has moved yet again for the 5th time in 2 yrs, and she is living in a place where she knows no one , family and friends are not around as she has either dumped them or they have put distance between her and them. I can see that she is heading for her greatest fear and it breaks my heart, i cant just walk back in and go back to square one but it doesnt make me happy to know shes on her own.. the emotional strain this causes is intense, if i let her back in before she makes any changes then my kids well being and my own are at risk emotionally and if i dont hers is.

i mean is it ever really truely acceptable to walk away? and with out harbouring guilt that will no doubt hold my own growth back, i'm working on the guilt as i know its not my fault and this is her path , her journey but its sucks knowing that your mum is living in her own worse fear come true :'(

any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated and sorry its so long
blessings
x x x

It sucks when we have to sit back and watch someone participate in their own self-destructive pattern. She's not even aware of how she's creating her reality. You've already decided that getting too involved causes more chaos in your life than helps her. I think you are completely fair in drawing a line and saying that crossing the line is abusive, while she is abusive you'll have to keep her out of your life. When she is able to be mature and not abusive then she is welcome in your life. She doesn't want to see her own abusive nature. Until she really wants to figure things out and participate in real authentic relationships, you may need to keep her out of your life to protect your family.

The fact that she's your mother is saddening, but also irrelevant. Being your mother doesn't give her a right to abuse you. If she were just a random person or just a friend, would you tolerate her behavior? You owe her nothing. She owes you nothing. Its the role of the parent to give self-lessly while the child needs to be a dependent. After that, the parent-child relationships is probably better dissolved to just a generic familial or friend relationship.

Your mother has to live with the karma she's generating. If you abuse people, they cut you out of their lives. She actually needs to be alone so that she can contemplate how she got to where she is. If people keep caving to her abuse then they are enabling her and re-enforcing her behavior as being an effective survival technique.

Would she be willing to read a book? You could give her something to digest like The Power of Now, or a book more themed along the lines of her religious beliefs. She really does need to be alone since she doesn't know how to play nice. For the protection of others, but also so that she can see the results of her actions. In the mean time, does she user the internet? Is she willing to converse with you through e-mail? You could converse with her and help her work though her issues if you're able to remain calm, non-reactive, and patient.

But the bottom line is, you should not feel guilty at all for protecting your family from abuse, no matter who is doing the abuse.

many thanks Topolgy.. its nice to know i'm not the terrible person i mislead myself into thinking i am on ocassions such as today

you may need to keep her out of your life to protect your family

yes which is exactly why i have, its no good for my children when they're own mum is feeling worn down and beaten not to mention stressed each day, and thats not takigninto account the harm she has given them directly.

The fact that she's your mother is saddening, but also irrelevant. Being your mother doesn't give her a right to abuse you

I sat and thought about this one for a few minutes, and true, very true that it is, i asked myself why i did allow it, apart form childhood loyalities i realised my mum has always brought me up to believe i owe her .... i would never tolerate this from some one else and the reason why it has caused me pain for, in particular the last 2 yrs, is because i allowed it to continue and i went against my own truth and self.

as for her Karma, my mum is incredibily stubborn and will bear grudges for years, i honestly thought that the intial shock would have been enough for her to see but its only driven her deeper, no form of communication woudl she even entertain with me now, shes completely blocked me from her life and i have heard she flys into rages at the people who have relationships with me !
books are a no go area, i have tried books, dvd's , cd's, even given her Reiki she seems completely closed to any form of assistance, even when it comes from other sources, if others try to reason , she falls out with them too, i know since me she has deleted further people from her life.

I can honestly say i have not been confrontational with her, raised my voice, i have told her i love her and that i am worried for her, and she just throws it all back.
i guess right now with time of her hands maybe she will see, for now i will wait...... hope and pray for her.

You have done everything you can, everything that can be reasonably expected from you without compromising your integrity and the integrity of your family. You have nothing to feel guilty for. That guilt is her way of compromising your integrity and energy system so that she can suck the life out of you. She's got some demons that are haunting her. Definite pain bodies that are rearing their head and needing to suck energy from anyone since she's bone dry herself. Pray for her, and pray that she come to terms with the pain she's been through that is causing her to want to inflict pain in others.

I'm just going to throw stuff out, and if something sticks, it sticks...

Respectfully to Topology, I think the mother/daughter relationship is different than mother/son. I could be wrong, seeing as I'm not a male. But it seems to me there is a bit of a different dynamic going on here. It's been my observation that around adolescence, boys become independent and are never home and that's "normal" development, whereas girls do exact opposite and they battle and are in your face all the time, which is "normal" development for that stage.... what I'm saying is that it is easier for your brothers to disengage, than it is for you.

And, they are probably figuring you are going to pick up the slack for them so they are off the hook. Which, you know what? Is not fair to you -- AND it's not fair to them, though they do not know it. Your stepping aside, and gently encouraging your brothers to step up to the plate some more and share the burden that is your mother, is completely fair and I will go so far as to say you are cheating them if you are the sole one to carry the load for them. You shouldn't do that. For their sakes -- not just your own.

There's an awesome book called Dance of Intimacy that I highly recommend to you, I haven't read it in eons, but I do think it will resonate very deeply with you.

It also sounds to me -- and excuse me if this is a wrong assumption -- that you have not yet got through the stage where you have let go of expectations and grieved that your mom is never going to be a mom. From sounds of it, you're the parent and she's the child. Have you grieved that yet? Gone through all the proper stages, including anger? Have you gone through same process that she's never going to be proper grandmother? I am sensing there is a part of you that is still holding out a shred of hope that in her dying hour she's going to finally act like the mom you desperately crave...

I hope it will happen, really I do... but it's best not to count on it or even hope for it. Accept her on her terms. If you can grieve, get through all the stages, and reach acceptance, you will find a space in which you can truly accept her for who she is, right now, never going to change, and be okay with that.

To answer your question, it is okay to walk away, but I'm of the mind that it is better to not walk away, but learn how to not just manage the relationship, but come to peace with it, and even enjoy it. But it takes letting go of all expectations you had for the relationship. It seems you see your mother perfectly clearly, but maybe you aren't able to shed the expectations in your heart. Which are completely normal ones. Everyone expects a mom to be a certain way. Everyone feels a hole when they act otherwise.

If you want to PM, I have some observations on this as my husband has been going through something similar with his own mom, but he does not like me sharing too much about him in public forums.

SQ, by all means, I am by no means the keeper of truth. :)

It sounds like your eldest brother is using his innate wisdom to have some protective distance from his mother. It might be the best option to not expose his child to his mother.

The real issue is why are you making your mother’s choice anguishing for you?????

She probably has no intention of changing how she operates. She is responsible for how she operates. You aren't. Others can benefit tremendously from drawing boundaries & then just moving on. There is no need to have any guilt whatsoever about making this empowering decision. You can be empathetic or compassionate towards her position w/o allowing it to affect your personal energies, causing you pain.

IT IS OK TO WALK AWAY FROM CORROSIVE RELATIONSHIPS even if they are close family members. This not only has nothing to do w/ your growth, but your growth may be dependent on realizing that your mother simply isn’t going to change.

There is no need for you to have any guilt about this in any way, even if she ends up desperately unhappy. This isn’t being unempathetic, calloused, or uncompassionate, but just realizing that she is in charge of her own actions & there really isn’t anything you can do about this. If in the future she changes that is one thing, but have no expectations that this will occur.

Your mother isn’t living in her OWN worst fear, but your worst fear. Move past this as you can't do anything about it. Fear of anything depresses your frequency considerably.

The idyllic & often mythological archetype of the perfect parents is something that sometimes is actually a reality, but often it isn’t. Those who have wonderful loving parents will likely not get it about how awful it is for children whose parents are not healthy either personally or in their how they interact w/ their children, but kids w/ dysfunctional parents do. Those who are family members & emotional abusers KNOW that others feel OBLIGATED to keep putting up w/ their garbage in the interest of supposed family unity. The ONLY WAY they will change is when others draw firm boundaries & stop putting up w/ their nonsense. If they don't change then the ones who have drawn the firm boundaries cease to be objects of manipulation for them. This is a very healthy choice for the person being abused or manipulated. The emotional abuser will move on to find others to jerk around, but this is the issue of the person who comes into their acquaintance later. It is not beneficial for you to agonize that she will abuse others emotionally or that her CHOICE is, ultimately, unhealthy for her. This is KEEPING YOUR SELF AS HER EMOTONAL VICTIM & HOSTAGE.

It is of the utmost importance that you realize that others have moved on to disengage themselves from the family dysfunctional patterns & YOU CAN TOO. Whether you are going to is entirely your choice.

Distanced Observer- http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...685#post176685

Originally Posted by Topology

... You have nothing to feel guilty for. ...

Can't be said enough.

Originally Posted by Topology

It sucks when we have to sit back and watch someone participate in their own self-destructive pattern. ... I think you are completely fair in drawing a line and saying that crossing the line is abusive, while she is abusive you'll have to keep her out of your life. ... Until she really wants to figure things out and participate in real authentic relationships, you may need to keep her out of your life to protect your family.

The fact that she's your mother is saddening, but also irrelevant. Being your mother doesn't give her a right to abuse you. If she were just a random person or just a friend, would you tolerate her behavior? You owe her nothing. ...
...
... you should not feel guilty at all for protecting your family from abuse, no matter who is doing the abuse.

(My caps.)

Spot On.......

Originally Posted by geminilite

... its nice to know i'm not the terrible person i mislead myself into thinking i am on ocassions such as today
...
I can honestly say i have not been confrontational with her, raised my voice, i have told her i love her and that i am worried for her, and she just throws it all back.
...

OMG, you’re not a terrible person at all. It is of the utmost importance that you get past anything even close to this notion.

It is OK to be frank w/ her & draw boundaries. This isn’t inappropriate at all.

A therapist I knew related his family interaction w/ a mother fond of drama. He got where when he was visiting & she would start in w/ the drama garbage, he would frankly & blandly state, I’m willing to stay if you stop this nonsense, & if you don’t I’m leaving. Then he would follow through if she didn’t stop w/ the drama.

Many preach that we should only extend love to everyone regardless of how much the dump on us. Others view standing up against abuse as appropriate, drawing boundary lines & being frank about discussing them. This is your choice as to what approach you feel is appropriate for you, but I sure hope you aren’t letting your kids observe her abuse you emotionally w/o you objecting that this is inappropriate. Do you want them to get the message that one is obligated to let family abuse be heaped on them, being an emotional doormat????? This can set up their being willing to accept an abusive spouse later in life. It is entirely OK, even desirable for you to say, Mom, that doesn’t cut it. Stop or leave. Or stop or I will leave. It is OK for your kids to see you stating this. You can do so w/o buying into her drama.