Matthew 10:34....Meaning?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Yes; but what is accomplished is always in relation to what he accomplished, or what someone else accomplished.. you never accomplish the same thing--

Jesus, Buddha and others united with cosmic consciousness. That is what these teachers are directing us to, showing us the way to the very same self-realization process. All souls will come to this in one lifetime or another. So yes, in that respect the same accomplishment for all souls and for collective humanity.

[firstandlast]

Originally Posted by Baile

Jesus, Buddha and others united with cosmic consciousness. That is what these teachers are directing us to, showing us the way to the very same self-realization process. All souls will come to this in one lifetime or another. So yes, in that respect the same accomplishment for all souls and for collective humanity.

=) okie dokie

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Peace is not what is desired; we simply desire peace as a stepping stone to greater joy--

You see, it is not conflict that is truly an issue, it is undesired conflict-- Conflict can be desired on both ends and such can be a beautiful thing, we can see this in competition and games-- It is entertainment, it is satisfaction, it is skills and craft; it is another way of dancing in our interaction--

Great point

[Starman]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Matthew 10:34...."Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword". What was Jesus saying?

My take.....:) paraphrased: "I have come to perform surgery and not to distribute painkillers that will alleviate your pain. Painkillers might bring peace from pain but they do not remove the source of pain. The surgery, IMO, is to separate us from the hold that the ego has on us. There will be pain involved because of our attachment to the ego. However, if the surgery is successful the net result will be the peace that "passes all understanding". Companion and explanatory verses would be the means for eternal life(ye must be born again) and "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly".

Is this way off base or simply ridiculous?

I think only Jesus knows what he meant and for others to know what he meant they would have to experience an inkling of what he was experiencing when he said what he did. Doing silent meditation and clearing my mind before reading the Bible, for me, gives greater insights into what is being said in the Bible.

I am not a Christian but I have gained great insights from reading the Bible because of my meditation practice, anything else for me, without my meditation, was pure speculation or second guessing. Jesus was a master who in my opinion acquired the "Christ" consciousness, and he spoke from that consciousness. He was in a place of pure uninterpreted divinity.

His disciples received his divine presence and probably most of the time they spoke from their experience of having received that presence; I say most of the time because some of them did deny him and one did betray him, or so it is written. To truly understand the Bible, or many other spiritual writings, the reader has to be close to that purity of mind themselves which the writer was writing about and not be influenced by, or prejudiced by, the conditioning of their own thoughts; their own mind.

I would bet that different Christian denominations interpret the same passages in the Bible differently. But I understand things the most when I am quiet inside; and I am just talking about me and how I glimmer insights from what I have read. Still, I have not given my opinion on the particular Bible verse in question, mainly because I have not meditated on it.

P.S. "The Gospel of Matthew is anonymous: the author is not named within the text, and the superscription "according to Matthew" was added some time in the second century." Wikipedia. It was also noted in other writings that Matthew was an Evangelist and he most likely was coming from an evangelical point of view.

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Molearner,

Peace without discrimination is complacency.
Complacency does not transform status quo.

~ J

That's a pretty good succinct summary.

...

[Baile]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

=) okie dokie

You know what would be great? A dialogue. I made a specific point, which is: It's like saying, we all grow up and learn to walk eventually. So yes, there is something "we all learn that's the same." You seem to believe otherwise. So how about you engage in a conversation, and explain, and that way we can discuss and maybe even come to an agreement? Because your response tells me nothing. In fact nothing would have been preferable to whatever that response was.

[firstandlast]

Originally Posted by Baile

You know what would be great? A dialogue. I made a specific point, which is: It's like saying, we all grow up and learn to walk eventually. So yes, there is something "we all learn that's the same." You seem to believe otherwise. So how about you engage in a conversation, and explain, and that way we can discuss and maybe even come to an agreement? Because your response tells me nothing. In fact nothing would have been preferable to whatever that response was.

Different axioms cannot be changed at the level of dialogue we are in; nor is it a simple thing to do-- So I just let it go, cuz as we move further such a thing ain't so important for me to clarify-- but that I didn't want you to think I just ignored your response, nor did I want make it seem like you made a point to me-- It was just agree to disagree kind of thing, I suppose--

Originally Posted by Baile

Jesus, Buddha and others united with cosmic consciousness. That is what these teachers are directing us to, showing us the way to the very same self-realization process. All souls will come to this in one lifetime or another. So yes, in that respect the same accomplishment for all souls and for collective humanity.

Baile,

This illustrates the problems of attempting to make definitive statements. We believe(and I do also) in the validity of experiential knowledge. But, in reality, none of us work solely from this premise. Nearly all of us supplement this within a framework that is constructed from reason, logic and acquired knowledge that we have accepted from others. Many, as you, have concluded that the framework of religion is not viable and through either logic or experience or persuasion have adopted an alternative philosophy.

In the case of what you have written above everything that you write is based on assumption and cannot be derived from what we call experiential knowledge. I would like it to be true and under my framework of belief, I believe it to be true. From my own experience I cannot confirm that Buddha, Christ and others united with cosmic consciousness. I can only say that I believed they did. It is a much bigger jump to speculate that 'all' souls will accomplish this. Certainly the only way for collective humanity(and I assume you are meaning all of humanity at a collective point in time) is that all souls living are reincarnated souls.......i.e. no new souls are being born. How does one wrap his head around this? If all souls are on an unstoppable path to union with cosmic consciousness is their evidence to demonstrate that the world is rapidly getting better and better? It would seem if it were the case that the world is progressing that the population of the world would be in decline(more and more souls having no need of reincarnation).

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Matthew 10:34...."Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword". What was Jesus saying?

My take.....:) paraphrased: "I have come to perform surgery and not to distribute painkillers that will alleviate your pain. Painkillers might bring peace from pain but they do not remove the source of pain. The surgery, IMO, is to separate us from the hold that the ego has on us. There will be pain involved because of our attachment to the ego. However, if the surgery is successful the net result will be the peace that "passes all understanding". Companion and explanatory verses would be the means for eternal life(ye must be born again) and "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly".

Is this way off base or simply ridiculous?

Think of who Jesus was talking to. He was talking to priest and people who believed in them. Who said to look outside yourself for the kingdom of heaven. Jesus came to show them a different way one that would pit father again son.

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

One of the best quotes from Jesus talking about the church at the time are these two.

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

88. Jesus said, "The messengers and the prophets will come to you and give you what belongs to you. You, in turn, give them what you have, and say to yourselves, 'When will they come and take what belongs to them?'"

More like they come and preach to tell you how to live and ask you for money but when will you experience that which they preach.

Jesus came to teach a path that is beyond faith a path to realize the light within that is all things.

24. His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it." He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Matthew 10:34...."Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword". What was Jesus saying?

My take.....:) paraphrased: "I have come to perform surgery and not to distribute painkillers that will alleviate your pain. Painkillers might bring peace from pain but they do not remove the source of pain. The surgery, IMO, is to separate us from the hold that the ego has on us. There will be pain involved because of our attachment to the ego. However, if the surgery is successful the net result will be the peace that "passes all understanding". Companion and explanatory verses would be the means for eternal life(ye must be born again) and "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly".

Baile is correct, the sword refers to the divine and in this case the word of.

This comes about from the entire passage. The twelve are going out to preach.

Notice the verse 10:36 the household. The household is also symbolic. The brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers are the members of the household. The household is the family (people) in the house.

The entire passage tells the disciples they are going to have a really difficult time of it and may even be beaten or die speaking to the household, their own people. People are going to argue. It's my understand at that time the idea of the Kingdom of Heaven at hand was literal and the world was suppose to be ending. Time was very short. Iow people weren't going to listen and people would argue against the words. Cause and effect. They were to speak to the people. God's word was like a sword.

An example we can see is how sometimes we argue about things said here which we can see as words that seem to cause reaction. Sometimes there is not peace here. It's like they had their own little forum back then to. So we can get a sense of even in the spiritual we argue saying it isn't spiritual to defend our position.