How spiritual are we really?

[running]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

If someone gives you a piece of cake freely then you will tell others, it's an uncondition love. True that's the fact because from that person to you is nothing wrong or right. When we see more farther, the one who gives you the cake is under certain conditions then the whole story will be different, is it not?

We talk of uncondition love but at certain point of process it's under condition to get it that's what I said "fade". We can have using money to travel a long distance to get it or maybe have to use freezer to keep it fresh ,then I can't see it's uncondition anymore.

Uncondition aa im using the word is that it is effortless and always. I agree the journey to it is in effort. A practice of some sort is certainly conditional. If you do it it helps. If u don't it doesnt.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by running

Uncondition aa im using the word is that it is effortless and always. I agree the journey to it is in effort. A practice of some sort is certainly conditional. If you do it it helps. If u don't it doesnt.

Thanks running, I don't admire for it but I have good mood to respond to the post that's bliss.

I never practice any dharma and never tend to get one. And automatically I know all dharma, that's uncondition love and they're clean|pure. At my current level I can easily have learned by my mind easily if I want. So I don't learn any dharma at the moment.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Molearner

These are the spiritual forums. Do we ask ourselves how spiritual we really are? Do we think we are spiritual because we are faithful meditators....that we understand spiritual precepts...that we have had mystic experiences? Can we test ourselves to determine our level of spirituality?

I am suggesting that the litmus test is our ability to love one another. Nothing, IMO, is a higher or more valid test of our spirituality. Basically this means walking into any situation that is alien to us with the determination and realization that it is our duty, our obligation, our calling to extend love to those that we encounter. This means giving up the natural impulse to judge others to validate our preconceptions of them, and if they pass our judgment that they then have proven themselves worthy of our love. This is nothing more than ego affirmation and has nothing to do with love. If our first impulse is to judge then it is fear for our security and acceptance that is the driving emotion.

I can think of a lot of good opportunities for testing ourselves.....but will only list a couple. Visit a fundamental church that you abhor......sit at a table with those that you are totally politically opposed to. Can you bring love? That can be your test. We tend to gravitate to intricate standards for genuine spirituality at the expense of neglecting the most basic and fundamental standards.

First you challenge us.

Then suggest that the solution to your challenge is to adopt your beliefs?

uhh. I think thats manipulation 101. but I understand that it's unintentional so its like only half as bad

Originally Posted by shivatar

First you challenge us.

Then suggest that the solution to your challenge is to adopt your beliefs?

uhh. I think thats manipulation 101. but I understand that it's unintentional so its like only half as bad

shivatar,

I do not want anyone to adopt my beliefs. Beliefs are personal. Everything that I offer is for consideration. I prefer to work in the realm of possibilities. Outright rejection of anything I say does not bother me at all. Freedom of all must be respected.

[Baile]

Depends on me. When I interact with life in a joyful, conscious, thoughtful way, I'm spiritual. If I interact with life in a miserable, critical and self-centered way, I am not being spiritual. Spirituality is always about me -- my happy, positive life attitude, outlook and approach -- and never about we.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Baile

Depends on me. When I interact with life in a joyful, conscious, thoughtful way, I'm spiritual. If I interact with life in a miserable, critical and self-centered way, I am not being spiritual. Spirituality is always about me -- my happy, positive life attitude, outlook and approach -- and never about we.

I really don't want you to take this the wrong way, but where have you been reading that spirituality is supposted to be self-centered? I've heard people say be considerate and loving of your self as much as you are of others, but I don't recall many, except tantric shivaism (which is a real thing), that say the self should be put above all. Sounds egoic to me.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by shivatar

where have you been reading that spirituality is supposted to be self-centered?

If I interact with life in a miserable, critical and self-centered way, I am not being spiritual.

I specifically wrote that self-centered is not being spiritual.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Baile

If I interact with life in a miserable, critical and self-centered way, I am not being spiritual.

I specifically wrote that self-centered is not being spiritual.

followed by one of the strongest self-centered sentences I've seen on spiritual forums... lol

"Spirituality is always about me"

[Baile]

Originally Posted by shivatar

followed by one of the strongest self-centered sentences I've seen on spiritual forums... lol

"Spirituality is always about me"

shivatar, I'll answer that, and whether I continue with this conversation beyond that will be up to you. Because if you reply again with another broad assumption and chortling lol-critique, I'll take that as your disinterest in an actual, honest dialogue.

MY spirituality is always about me. How could it be anything else but that? How for example could I make my spirituality about you? You have nothing to do with my individual spiritual path. Likewise I can't make my spirituality about someone in the Buddhist or Christian forum, because I'm not Buddhist or Christian.

I said: When I interact with life in a joyful, conscious, thoughtful way, I'm spiritual. I did not say: A person is only spiritual if they interact with life in a joyful, conscious, thoughtful way. I always try to consciously and intentionally and specifically word my descriptions in a way that doesn't infringe on any one else's free choice. Because I don't know what spirituality is for THEM. I can only know what it is for ME.

And so I say, in response to the thread title question, spirituality is always about me, not we.

Originally Posted by Baile

MY spirituality is always about me. How could it be anything else but that? How for example could I make my spirituality about you? You have nothing to do with my individual spiritual path. Likewise I can't make my spirituality about someone in the Buddhist or Christian forum, because I'm not Buddhist or Christian.

I said: When I interact with life in a joyful, conscious, thoughtful way, I'm spiritual. I did not say: A person is only spiritual if they interact with life in a joyful, conscious, thoughtful way. I always try to consciously and intentionally and specifically word my descriptions in a way that doesn't infringe on any one else's free choice. Because I don't know what spirituality is for THEM. I can only know what it is for ME.

And so I say, in response to the thread title question, spirituality is always about me, not we.

Baile,

Shivatar seems to have a point. Especially when you make a point of your spirituality being dependent on the way you "interact with life". 'Life' seems to imply others(we). Perhaps spirituality can only be about 'me' but it is necessarily dependent on the existence of others(we) with whom we can interact? We see this differently. I believe in the necessity of seeing others(with awareness) to greatly aid me in seeing myself(becoming spiritual). I cannot dismiss others as playing no role in spirituality.