what is bliss?

[dryad]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think the main thing is to be at peace, which means peace with all that has past, and is passing. That balance in the mind is disturbed by craving bliss, and wanting more. The ability to be aware without the personal reactivity means no one is resisting all that is in passing, as it appears to one's own conscious awareness. If a person starts to practice, they cease to do anything, and there is no mantra, visualisation, breath control and so on. By intentionally ceasing all doing a person can see how their mind's activity, and reactivity, is habitualised, and how these habitual resistances as well as pursuits are agitating the mind, making it unbalanced and unclear. This signifies a shift from self-becoming (becoming more spiritual and so forth) to self awareness (knowing what is going on with you). Then, because no one is interfering with all that passes, the old things that became stuck can start to come out, as nothing is resisting or obstructing them anymore. At some time in that process things become clear enough and the 'bliss' starts to bubble up, but one needs to understand the underlying skill of equanimity which enables this opening up, or they will continue to be stuck in craving more bliss. In this way, the first day novice is doing the exact same practice as the seasoned monk, and there is no 'more advanced' practice. People will practice all sorts of things like pranayama and mantra and so forth, trying to make stuff clear, trying to increase the free flow, but a more careful observation will reveal the aversion toward ones life obstacles, and their craving to more of the blissful sensation. Hence the practice is in that observation which has the characteristics of conscious awareness with stable equanimity.

Most of this I agree with but I would add that there are no more advanced practices because the more advanced practitioner no longer needs such tools as mantras and pranayama to accomplish their tasks. They become skills not practices. Perceptions are also developed and extended by various practices. Eventually skills and perceptions are combined in new ways. That's what is meant by more advanced practices. They are not practices anymore. But I do know I can do things now that I was not capable of ten or twenty years ago. There is definitely progress.

It's a bit like that verse from the Rubaiyat:

A Book of Verses underneath the Bough,
A Jug of Wine, A Loaf of Bread and Thou
Beside me singing in the wilderness
And wilderness is paradise now

Yup.... and if someone could kindly pass me a thou that'd do for bliss. Oh, and make the wilderness a warm summer evening scented with honeysuckle if you can.
Tanx!

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by dryad

Most of this I agree with but I would add that there are no more advanced practices because the more advanced practitioner no longer needs such tools as mantras and pranayama to accomplish their tasks. They become skills not practices. Perceptions are also developed and extended by various practices. Eventually skills and perceptions are combined in new ways. That's what is meant by more advanced practices. They are not practices anymore. But I do know I can do things now that I was not capable of ten or twenty years ago. There is definitely progress.

If you read what Gem said:

"I think the main thing is to be at peace, which means peace with all that has past, and is passing. That balance in the mind is disturbed by craving bliss, and wanting more. The ability to be aware without the personal reactivity means no one is resisting all that is in passing, as it appears to one's own conscious awareness. If a person starts to practice, they cease to do anything, and there is no mantra, visualisation, breath control and so on. By intentionally ceasing all doing a person can see how their mind's activity, and reactivity, is habitualised, and how these habitual resistances as well as pursuits are agitating the mind, making it unbalanced and unclear. This signifies a shift from self-becoming (becoming more spiritual and so forth) to self awareness (knowing what is going on with you). Then, because no one is interfering with all that passes, the old things that became stuck can start to come out, as nothing is resisting or obstructing them anymore. At some time in that process things become clear enough and the 'bliss' starts to bubble up, but one needs to understand the underlying skill of equanimity which enables this opening up, or they will continue to be stuck in craving more bliss.In this way, the first day novice is doing the exact same practice as the seasoned monk, and there is no 'more advanced' practice. People will practice all sorts of things like pranayama and mantra and so forth, trying to make stuff clear, trying to increase the free flow, but a more careful observation will reveal the aversion toward ones life obstacles, and their craving to more of the blissful sensation. Hence the practice is in that observation which has the characteristics of conscious awareness with stable equanimity."

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Reminds me of some age old advice..."just be yourself".

You wish. As in, if only it was that easy.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

That's good.

I don't think it works like that, and I think it's actually the equanimity of the mind that enables the purification.

That makes sense.

I talk about opening up to life in the sense that the vitality of living energy can come through without being overly hindered, but that might mean emotional turmoil can surface without disturbing you, or it could mean a huge current of blissful energy flows through without creating a ripple.

Yes I understand. I imagine through the opening, that it would be easy to attach to certain points of your own process in the opening, believing that is the "most desirable" point, or a belief that it is the ultimate way of being in your body. Those attachments could well be held in quite obvious or more subtle unconscious patterns as I see it. We use it to serve ourselves until it no longer does. There is always more..

The deeper awareness (for myself) is that the totality of your
"aliveness" is an integrative affect through a more inclusive self aware state of being. At the core of myself, I am at peace and all that moves from that point, is a changing movement of myself as one with life. I experience myself as I am as a whole complete person in peace. How I move and what I move as is really the 'engagement and expression of myself' in the ever changing moments of life as life moves me. I can be moved inwardly alone in a space of my own connection to myself, I can dance with myself aware of how I feel within in peace of being myself. When I am moved by a person on the street in need of some comfort and loving support, my comfort and loving support moves with them in peace. When I am laughing and having fun with my comedic friends my inner joy and fun loving self comes out of herself because I am at peace with myself in this way. The list goes on....

For me personally, all that I experience becomes an integrated way of being open and alive to my own "vital energy" as you mentioned, as a source to use in so many ways of being in the world. The integration doesn't point to it being this or that or what I am being. In being, I am just being myself. I do believe that within the core of peace and equanimity of mind, there is the effortless flow of all those beautiful aspects of self we can be open to and aware we are and use in any way of our creative process as a part of life. When you make peace with yourself and life as it is, peace allows you to relax deeper into your true nature effortlessly. For me it is all those aspects that flow through effortlessly as part of my true nature, that allow me to have peace of mind, deeper connection to others and life. There is no desire or need to make myself be anything. I am just being me..

And there in lays the abundance of your true nature, alive and reflected into life as you live it and engage with life. And of course there is always choice in who and what we engage with, which often reflects the containment or the openness we hold within towards ourselves and others. When your open fully to yourself as you are more complete, you understand the nature of yourself as the whole, not one thing, not two or four, but all of you. The song or dance your play through one, just means your using that for focus, which works..

[running]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The way I see it, the 'answer' (result) one 'receives' (actualizes) is simply a 'reflection' of whatever it is that one is 'seeking' at any given point - as in "Ask, and ye shall receive; seek, and ye shall find."

One may find/receive many things which make one 'happy', in the sense of 'happier' than one was before, but whether or not one continues to be and so remains joy-fully 'happy' in the sense of being maximally, or totally, fulfilled depends on whether or not what one asked for, i.e. sought, was/is truly aligned with one's real 'nature', ...

... which to me means the 'nature' of the 'Essence' of Life, or Being, Itself[/u], which 'nature' is the functional spiritual 'embodiment' of the 'core' (or 'central') purpose of all Creativity/Creation (not just the vagaries of personal) Being/Existence.

Based on said logic, I think thinking and feeling and believing that the 'central' purpose, hence the maximal fulfillment, of the Essence of Life/Creativity/Creation, the Process of Being-n-Becoming is to experience total/complete/everlasting "Bliss" is oxymoronic. Why? Because the Source (of Life) could just as well just as well have actualized that by simply 'staying in bed' (so to speak) and continuing to 'dream' whatever 'it' wanted to, i.e. just 'sucking its thumb' (so to speak).

Followers of Eastern as well as Western philosophies which buy into the idea and so 'project' that the 'core' (central/primary) nature, hence most real motive or purpose, of Life is to 'end' (the possibility of experiencing) 'suffering' and just eternally experience 'bliss' forever thereafter are therefore IMO 'doomed' to be disillusioned, eventually at least, in said regard - according to my projections, that is, which projections derive from extrapolations of both my personal experiences and from my observations of kittens, puppies, children, etc. - "Except ye ... become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." blah-de-blah.

I hereby share my 'belief' (based on extensive personal observation and consideration) that the real motive/purpose which gives 'rise' to Life/Creativity/Creation is to is to maximally express and thereby experience Love and Joy in relationship to and with others. I think that the pursuit of personally experienced "bliss" as a primary goal (especially the kind aimed for in 'i'solation) pretty much ensures that one will miss the boat in this relationship-to-and-with-others regard. Relationally (lovingly and joyfully) participating with others in a forum such as this, even if it involves 'extolling' personally 'separate' experiences of "bliss", is a good start.

I strongly disagree with the statement made earlier that: "From what I have experienced, reality itself is absolutely neutral. It does not judge between happiness and sadness, or good and bad." In my view, Love and Joy are are fundamental spiritual realities which are anything but 'neutral'. Also to Love and Joyfully celebrate Life/existence/relationship in relation to and with others one must distinguish between happiness and sadness, as well as between what is good (i.e. better) and bad (i.e. worse), and make 'wise' choices in said regards, in terms of what serves to augment or debase the ongoing experience of Life and Joy in relationship to and with others.

To promote more thoughtful consideration of the above proposition, I submit the following excerpt from a chapter I just finished writing which places it in human-historical context:


Pursuing 'happiness', 'bliss', whatever without taking the reality of such context in the account will at best yield temporary result in said regards, I would suggest.

For anyone interested, the full text of the chapter from which the above excerpt was taken is available as a pdf file from the 'Articles' page of my website. It is titled, "What Jesus Really Meant - Ch.1"

may not be a bad idea to visit a guru, ashram, or something that can give you a glimpse of the topic. i have seen it work for many people. even if its ultimately not what you want. it would help you understand the topic.

it might help to know that the emotional body is not the motor to bliss. and after somebody comes upon bliss and past the coming and going of it, the emotional body and mind remain in good running condition. there may be, or at least for me a period of time to get used to the bliss. months or maybe a year or so for me to get acclimated to it. some months for a big part of it. maybe a couple years of everything being acclimated. acclimated meaning the mind can handle it, the body can handle it and so on.

some people do sorta isolate themselves. people live in ashrams or other places. but that's their deal. their desire. i assure you that living an ordinary life with all its responsibilities, relationships, and so on is also a choice. and totally doable. im doing it as others are to. the main difference from before to after, is its just much easier.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by running

may not be a bad idea to visit a guru, ashram, or something that can give you a glimpse of the topic. i have seen it work for many people. even if its ultimately not what you want. it would help you understand the topic.

it might help to know that the emotional body is not the motor to bliss. and after somebody comes upon bliss and past the coming and going of it, the emotional body and mind remain in good running condition. there may be, or at least for me a period of time to get used to the bliss. months or maybe a year or so for me to get acclimated to it. some months for a big part of it. maybe a couple years of everything being acclimated. acclimated meaning the mind can handle it, the body can handle it and so on.

some people do sorta isolate themselves. people live in ashrams or other places. but that's their deal. their desire. i assure you that living an ordinary life with all its responsibilities, relationships, and so on is also a choice. and totally doable. im doing it as others are to. the main difference from before to after, is its just much easier.

Divine Bliss which the ancients have described as ‘that peace which passeth all understanding.’

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Divine Bliss which the ancients have described as ‘that peace which passeth all understanding.’

Sounds pretty boring to me, like being a sweet-tooth I wouldn't want to live on a diet of condensed milk the whole time although a tinful might seem bliss.

In small quantities, bliss might be good. I'm happier with ecstasy.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

10Charrule

Ahh. Well I can relate, as you have clearly seen me going through difficult times these last few months where I can remember a time when I felt divine love but haven't been able to feel it in a long time.

to be honest I'm tired of seeking it.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

This is so cute.

I just went on a google search about how to "re-ignite my love affair with God" and I got this:

"you need to push God - that is, Pray Until Something Happens".

Never heard that one before, but I really like it! =)

I made my own. Punch God.

Punch the
universe in the
nuts until
change
happens.


Ya hear that universe? I'M COMING FOR YOU! better give me what I want or you'll need a universe sized bag of ice. lolol.