144,000

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Ezdra

I believe such period of peace and well being will be granted in history before the Second Coming and before the Antichrist as well. As of the exact role of 144,000 on Mt Zion, it seems to be a bit early, but it may happen quite soon and unexpected. Is it possible, every age to have its 144000 as it is said, every age has its antichrist as well?

In your first post you called this a new theory. This isn't really new, this is a variation of the materialistic church interpretation. New to me would be a spiritual interpretation born of the understanding that the Bible is meant to be interpreted allegorically and not literally. Inner battle and war within the human soul, for example. And anti-Christ is not a person, it is the collective anti-God energy being created in the world as a result of negative, unconscious human thoughts and deeds ("sin" to use the Christian term). The beast rising out of the sea (sea represents the unconscious mind) is the destructive human thought life, the many heads are the human intellect run rampant, the horns the ability to pierce and harm with our thoughts. The dragon of the earth represents the human body (the body is of the material, the earth), and the ability of the human being to loose upon the world Godless action and deed.

[Ezdra]

well I am sorry I cannot explain everything. Sure there are enough theories but what I introduce is new. I introduce a new loophole in the prophetic timeline, similar tot he pause of Daniel 69-70 week. The new pause will happen during the Revelation 12 war in heaven/universe that is quite long event, if you take account of trillions of stars known today. That period will be used as the era of peace on earth. Most likely after a chastisement of some sort. I have graphs but I will be able to upload them only after my initial period of 15 days in the forum. I don't know of anyone who speaks of a ew pause in prophecy of Revelation or anywhere. Era of peace is nothing new, but most often it is connected with the Millennium of after Second Coming of Jesus.

Whether those entities are purely spiritual energies, or also physical, I understand it the prophecy must happen in daylight in order to be qualified as authentic and to convert people to God. Not that the other way is wrong, it is just not what the prophetic meaning of the texts is intended to be. Who will believe a prophecy that fulfills only spiritual, or as the preterists say, back in time? One has to be theologian to believe such explanations. The billion Christians want to see and touch, and they have the right of that, taking into account the countless sufferings they had to endure so far.

[Ezdra]

Let me say some things about the existing catholic prophecy based on private revelations, such as Fatima and subsequent apparitions.
They envision the current era to end pretty soon (2000 was a possible year, now 2016-17). Followed by planetary wide Chastisement of fire, whether it is man made WW3 or celestial impact/event. Followed by an Era of Peace granted to humanity (Fatima) that does not constitute the Millenium or the Second Coming.

Of course there are differences from one to another seer. Such as the introduction of pre-Chastisement events as: Great Warning planetary wide, followed by a great Miracle (in Garabandal or in other holy sites).

If we are talking of 2016-2017 Chastisement, in order to have the 2017 100th anniversary of Fatima as fulfilled prophecy (ex-jesuit Malachi Martin, chief exorcist Fr Amorth, pope emeritus Benedict) then there is no physical time for the Great Warning and Miracle unless they start this month or the next one. I develop that in other forum as well.

With or without Warning and Miracle, the Earth could undergo Chastisement (let say WW3 for simplicity, although space object collision is not virtual possibility). It could happen relatively fast, with little to no pre warning. secular researchers and insiders that fill internet space on youtube or their own radios, give 2 weeks maximum as warning to humanity for such kind of disastrous event. Technically it could happen September 2017, but I think in broader way of those last years, that the last month, date, or even year do not fit the explanation of Malachi Martin in 1997 "there won't be 20 years more". For those who do not know, Martin was given to read the original Fatima Third Secret under oath of secrecy. Subsequently he leaves the Jesuit order and starts publishing books in New York, where he dies in ...1998? His latest radio interviews are available on youtube. In one of them he says the salvation comes from Russia AND KIEV because of the choice of God. He says that not even Neues Europa text of Fatima 3rd secret is complete, with missing core element. I could talk much and to critisize his psition as well. But the dating seems quite clear, in 1997 he said about Fatima fulfillment "there won't be 100 years more, there won't be 20 years more". 2017 is already the 20th year.

Fr Gabrielle Amorth top Vatican exorcist, said last year that the fulfillment of Fatima will happen within 8 months. Those months expired November 2015. Then in a second interview he said he was not a prophet but the events are rather soon.

Pope emeritus Benedict on his visit to Fatima said, the 100th anniversary of the apparitions will see them fulfilled with the era of peace and the reign of the immaculate heart of Mary (not exact quotation).

So we have nothing else but to wait those last months that everything will be decided.

[Ezdra]

As Garabandal Great Warning and Miracle dates, for those who know the details of that sequence, it is clear they cannot be fulfilled within year of each other, with Miracle fixed for April, unless they happen NOW. There is great expectation that indeed 2016 will be the prophetic year.

(one may add countless Jewish rabbis talking of that from their point of view).

Personally, I think the event called Great Warning is not what is said to be. It is rather ET contact. It may or may not follow schedule, rather not, of Garabandal that have quite many other questions, including of the last pope to be JPII. However Garabandal is not the only alleged apparition that predicts the Warning. I am skeptical, but I have to take into account such predictions be they true or false, do exist and are very popular among devote catholics reaching to fanaticism sometimes.

As of the expectation of Armageddon by certain evangelical pastors, that reaches the level to set dates of rapture that always fail.

Perhaps Grabandal is next to fail as date.

What I expect is quite different, but I say those things for thos e of you who didn't have the chnce to encounter catholic modern prophecy.

Thank you.

[Ezdra]

My theory: if there isn't a new pause in prophecy, you can't put the Era of peace anywhere on the Revelation timeline before the antichrist. Indeed, some say the chastisement coincides with antichrist and era of peace with millennium, but that is a wrong view. Second Coming is far beyond our understanding, and we cannot label it as simply "era of peace". In fact, none of the big catholic apparitions in the last century talks of Second coming to come so soon, or armageddon. False ones do exist, and they come and go on pretty fast pace. I don't want to name them, but there was a famous Irish woman who gave fantastic predictions in a very well maintained website, as coming directly from Jesus. They were terrible. They were new teaching for sure. Thanks God she just stopped doing that for whatever reason and her site is down.

[Ezdra]

I think, the extraterrestrial beings should be seriously considered as part of the Biblica revelation, and of the reality we are living in. Although not seen. But the angels are not seen either. The Bible is full of such accounts, of clouds over Israel who perform duties more appropriate of highly advanced Et spaceship and not of spiritual only beings. Ezekiel 1 is explicit of those beings have quite elaborate technology that he tries to describe with available vcabulary.

The idea everything that is outside earth and not "heaven" is demonic, cannot be farther from the truth. Yes there are fallen ones. But there are good ones as well.

Also we have to redefine where heaven is. In past ages it was painted right above the clouds. Now we know that cannot be the true picture. Now we know of trillions or more galaxies and stars. Where is heaven, purgatory and hell, besides their pure spiritual meaning? Where do the angels and saints dwell? Why so many stars without purpose to be created?

Leading Vatican astronomers-Jesuits started giving answers that life elsewhere is not only possible but likely. That if those beings come to encounter earth and church, and ask for baptism, they will be given such. Pope Francis himself said he would baptise a Martian with big nose and years "as the children paint", if tomorrow a delegation from Mars comes and asks for that.

St Padre Pio in rare statement says, not all of th ebeings in the Universe committed original sins, there are pure beings unlike us. (not quoting exactly).

John XXIII the infamous pope who started the last church council, was leaked as allegedly having contacts with extraterrestrial ship landed in Castel Gandolfo. Furthermore, his alleged diary speaks of his own visions of the Madonna, and aliens who looking odd will help to cleanse planet after major (nuclear) war. Indeed he envisioned all that to happen by year 2000. But he is not the only one who failed about 2000. Numerous of seers pointed at that year as fulfillment of centuries old expectations, and failed. We live in extra time. Hope this time, 2017 will be indeed the fulfillment.

[Ezdra]

One can add Pius XII in the list of popes who had extraterrestrial encounter. The interview of Bob Dean with Camelot speaks of that in more detail, as cardinal McIntyre of Los Angeles present at the meeting Eisenhower - aliens in California base.

[Ezdra]

All that should be untied in a larger picture, and if you do so it would be great. pretty much have done my work in forums, and this is the last forum I am doing that, not the first one. For reasons beyond logic.

If we have public contact soon, that will bring more complete knowledge also fo the life of Jesus Christ, then everything will change and we will not have the need to discuss it so much (or we will have more need!). Imagine the life of Jesus recorded on 33 year long videotape from the clouds from hidden spaceships. I am sure the life of Jesus as the life of everyone of us, is not secret for the Universe, for God, but recorded on whatever you want to call it. Near Death experiences show that clearly. So why not the humanity is finally granted the record of the life of Jesus Christ to erase any other dispute whether he was married or not, what he said, and so on. Indeed 33y are a long time to be watched, but there could be shorter versions.

[Ezdra]

I will add one more provocative question. Sorry if someone takes it wrongly.
How about the semen of Jesus? He had it, because he was incarnated as male. What happened to that divine semen? Did he marry Mary Magdalene, as a number of non-canonical gospels say? And even if he did not marry, still his seed would be divine, being son of God. How about that?

I think the heavenly set of 144,000 could well be his descendants, as well as the manchild himself. Other scenarios do exist, once we realize something must have happened with the seed of Jesus, on planet earth but also far beyond planet earth.

The idea of how the entire Church on Earth is the spiritual bride of Christ, can be only spiritual and symbolic. How otherwise one can have millions of individual brides? It goes against the established norms of the Church itself. What does it mean to be bride of Christ if not to have intimate intercourse? And because we do not contemplate Christ as having millions of such, we could make it more narrow to one physical bride. And to go on from that point interpolating in time what has happened.

Of course if we contemplate heaven as clouds and light alone, it is hard to see it in that way.

Sorry if someone finds offence in that.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Ezdra

How about the semen of Jesus? He had it, because he was incarnated as male. What happened to that divine semen?

Questions like this are founded in intellectual materialism and don't have much if anything to do with spiritual realities. It's the problem in general with evangelical/literal interpretations of the Bible: human beings applying limited human concepts to spiritual realities. What you're asking is a similar question people have asked regarding the Holy Grail. No, it was never an actual physical object. Physical objects and physical aspects of life hold no spiritual permanence. This is what is meant with regards to idolatry: assigning Spirit worth to artifacts and statues for example. The physical is temporal and contains nothing more than that; only Spirit is of the eternal.