Enlightenment

[It Is]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I just look and notice things and ask. I cant help myself if I see things and need to ask ..

/

Well observed, I would say.

By the way thanks for your new quote in your sig. Just what I need to hear at this time!

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

"...unless you chose", ah yes, made me chuckle, thanks....yeah, like holding a candle close to your chest
trying not to let any breeze blow it out...
Or like living your life holding sand in your hand...oh brother.
It comes back, it goes away, it slips in, it slips out...it suddenly comes
from out of the blue and fades away like drifting fog...the Illusive Butterfly...
the Cosmic Carrot dangled ...have to give up everything to receive it all...
To receive it you can't want it...but you have to want it to even get close to it...
Gotta love the spiritual Path!

Thanks Miss Hepburn...

Brilliant really. Exactly my experience thus far.

The wanting part is interesting. I've been caring less and less lately! Maybe I'm on to something?

Originally Posted by naturesflow

..............

Is it coincidence, but superstitious as I am, I don't like doing the 13th reply. It happened the other day. I had to blank the post just the same way and write it as the 14th reply.

[Starman]

I am retired, sold my house some time ago, and now live in my RV traveling here and there; its’ a great life but sometimes I go into areas where there is no internet connection, wifi, etc. so I am not readily available to answer pm’s, posts, etc, and I turned off my ability to receive pm’s months ago. I am here on this website sporadically and in my current location don‘t know when from day to day if I will have internet access.

For some time I have felt that generally people do not need to defend their truth; only if that truth infringes on others does it require a defense. I am sharing here and although I may come across strong, I am not trying to tell others how to think or be. We each have our own experiences and as best we can try to express those experiences when we choose.

People have been debating things for centuries and where has it gotten us except reconstructing the same mental box; those who feel they “won” usually feel good while those who they feel lost the debate continue believing what they did prior to the debate. Research usually leaves us with more questions then answers, and most of us have probably watched political debates; they can be mentally stimulating but not much else and debates usually don‘t change the minds of politicians.

As we are on a medium which exclusively uses words to communicate words are all we have if we wish to communicate details, but words are not the only way that people can communicate; I have already mentioned this in a previous post here; there is feeling behind words and I prefer the presence involved in what someone is saying instead of just picking apart a persons’ words. But as I acknowledge, we are using a medium which was founded on transmitting written words, but again as mentioned earlier, I wear my words lightly. Words are not real to me; people kill people over words, words can have multiple meanings, like the word "enlightenment," and new words are being created all the time. I can be around people and spread the presence of love without saying a word and I have seen this done by others.

Yes, I am using labels to say I really don‘t care for labels but you otherwise would not know that if I did not use a label. In certain realms beyond this physical world beings do not use words to communicate; because in a fourth dimensional existence 3-dimensional expressions are inadequate, but those beings do communicate in such a transparent fashion. People here on this forum will see what they will see in what I post but that is more about them than it is about me. What other people say about me has nothing to do with me and what I say about others have nothing to do with them.

Every thought we have, every word we say, every action we take, has to do with enlightenment. Enlightenment is not an isolated subject where we only use the word “enlightenment. “ Everything is inter-disciplinary, nothing stands alone, and the sooner people acknowledge the relationships between things their growth and development increases. We are talking about enlightenment when we talk about the nature of our desires when we change a baby’s diaper, etc. An in my opinion what we call “enlightenment” is just another stage of unconsciousness, as I said before, enlightenment is ongoing, and while the physical world is limited to duality we do not have to limit our consciousness to dualistic perceptions; pros and cons, right and wrong, compare and contrast, etc., those all have dualistic characteristics; which would be okay to use if we did not think they were real.

I post on a number of spiritually oriented websites and I find the perspectives interesting but I do not get involved in debate. I can agree to disagree and respect what another person has said even if I disagree. In my opinion we need more of that in this world. So now I am going up into Canada’s Yukon Territory and may not have internet access for a while.

Peace

[Clover]

Originally Posted by Starman

I am retired, sold my house some time ago, and now live in my RV traveling here and there; its’ a great life but sometimes I go into areas where there is no internet connection, wifi, etc. so I am not readily available to answer pm’s, posts, etc, and I turned off my ability to receive pm’s months ago. I am here on this website sporadically and in my current location don‘t know when from day to day if I will have internet access.


So now I am going up into Canada’s Yukon Territory and may not have internet access for a while.

Peace

Sounds exciting, Starman, I hope your enjoying your travels, stay safe on the road and if you feel inclined, please do come back and share your adventures on the forum.

Cloves

[Starman]

Originally Posted by Clover

Sounds exciting, Starman, I hope your enjoying your travels, stay safe on the road and if you feel inclined, please do come back and share your adventures on the forum.

Cloves

Thank you Clover, I do feel welcome here and given the opportunity will return and share some of my adventures. I am not really on the road that much, usually find a spot and hang out there for a few weeks or a month or so. The worst of it is driving and encountering people with road rage; but that also tests my enlightenment; or at least to what degree I am actually acknowledging my light.

Meditation in the great outdoors is so extra wonderful; afterwards I have had birds land and sit on my shoulder or head, and deer will come and eat from your hand. The nature of creation can be so awesomely incredible but it can also be dangerous, as we are seeing with the hurricanes on the east coast of the U.S., floods in India, etc.

Just want to say you folks who run this forum are doing a top notch, excellent job.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Is it coincidence, but superstitious as I am, I don't like doing the 13th reply. It happened the other day. I had to blank the post just the same way and write it as the 14th reply.

lol I didn't even give that a thought. I actually deleted my original post but then decided to look at things differently and respond in another post. I would not have thought you to be a superstitious type Lorelyen?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by It Is

Well observed, I would say.

By the way thanks for your new quote in your sig. Just what I need to hear at this time!

I guess observing is really about our immersion into what is there and what arises. In relation to observing yourself speaking the meanings of things, I suspect the mind engages itself in this way where it stops and looks, notices which then gives meaning only where it is looking, well it seems that way to me/
Where as the flow (as my sig suggests) more about staying present with what is there aware that life and flow on from that is ongoing. So meaning or reason in this view, becomes a creative flow and creation where you are at as the one looking and noticing and creating.. I guess in this view, meaning is an ever changing view of creation so meaning is a personal aspect of those integrated moments of the life experience. The deeper one is immersed, the greater impact of meaning I would imagine? Perhaps, that is why whenever one might give meaning to the broader audience reading as something that is not personally reflected upon deeper, it can convey itself as more than itself in that reflection, but ultimately it can only be about your own meaning. When we choose to encompass others within that meaning it can be a guiding way through to our own of course, but within the subtle awareness of self in all that making it about others, one can miss vital aspects of deeper reflection and clarity of a view ever changing that meaning tends to create, where we are and where we are feeling and looking into as such. Such is the nature of relating and creation. It is part of life giving reason to many things. Giving reason to life and themselves as life.

I kind of tied my signature and view into the above response as one. :)

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Starman

I am retired, sold my house some time ago, and now live in my RV traveling here and there; its’ a great life but sometimes I go into areas where there is no internet connection, wifi, etc. so I am not readily available to answer pm’s, posts, etc, and I turned off my ability to receive pm’s months ago. I am here on this website sporadically and in my current location don‘t know when from day to day if I will have internet access.

For some time I have felt that generally people do not need to defend their truth; only if that truth infringes on others does it require a defense. I am sharing here and although I may come across strong, I am not trying to tell others how to think or be. We each have our own experiences and as best we can try to express those experiences when we choose.

People have been debating things for centuries and where has it gotten us except reconstructing the same mental box; those who feel they “won” usually feel good while those who they feel lost the debate continue believing what they did prior to the debate. Research usually leaves us with more questions then answers, and most of us have probably watched political debates; they can be mentally stimulating but not much else and debates usually don‘t change the minds of politicians.

As we are on a medium which exclusively uses words to communicate words are all we have if we wish to communicate details, but words are not the only way that people can communicate; I have already mentioned this in a previous post here; there is feeling behind words and I prefer the presence involved in what someone is saying instead of just picking apart a persons’ words. But as I acknowledge, we are using a medium which was founded on transmitting written words, but again as mentioned earlier, I wear my words lightly. Words are not real to me; people kill people over words, words can have multiple meanings, like the word "enlightenment," and new words are being created all the time. I can be around people and spread the presence of love without saying a word and I have seen this done by others.

Yes, I am using labels to say I really don‘t care for labels but you otherwise would not know that if I did not use a label. In certain realms beyond this physical world beings do not use words to communicate; because in a fourth dimensional existence 3-dimensional expressions are inadequate, but those beings do communicate in such a transparent fashion. People here on this forum will see what they will see in what I post but that is more about them than it is about me. What other people say about me has nothing to do with me and what I say about others have nothing to do with them.

Every thought we have, every word we say, every action we take, has to do with enlightenment. Enlightenment is not an isolated subject where we only use the word “enlightenment. “ Everything is inter-disciplinary, nothing stands alone, and the sooner people acknowledge the relationships between things their growth and development increases. We are talking about enlightenment when we talk about the nature of our desires when we change a baby’s diaper, etc. An in my opinion what we call “enlightenment” is just another stage of unconsciousness, as I said before, enlightenment is ongoing, and while the physical world is limited to duality we do not have to limit our consciousness to dualistic perceptions; pros and cons, right and wrong, compare and contrast, etc., those all have dualistic characteristics; which would be okay to use if we did not think they were real.

I post on a number of spiritually oriented websites and I find the perspectives interesting but I do not get involved in debate. I can agree to disagree and respect what another person has said even if I disagree. In my opinion we need more of that in this world. So now I am going up into Canada’s Yukon Territory and may not have internet access for a while.

Peace

I know your probably gone off the beaten track by now, but a few things arose reading this. If I take out the word enlightenment and talk more about the nature of things, which I notice you did in this post, it actually fits in me in a way where I have no more questions to ask you. When your immersed more directly in what is there, enlightenment doesn't really need to come into the picture of the babies diaper moment or the interdisciplinary or the nothing stands alone moments. What is, just is happening as life experiencing itself as life. The trap of enlightenment is that it can become a point in the mind making a point of something that is nothing but life itself, creating itself to give meaning where it sees something exists of that creation we make. Yet all life exist within the interconnected nature of life I see and experience, so for me its just another label pointing as a break down of something I believe exists as that. It becomes a belief.

Have a great camping trip. Sounds like fun.

[running]

Originally Posted by Starman

Yes, I know there are lots of threads on this topic but I've had some insights on this which I wish to share:

Enlightenment is not just one thing; it is not a plateau which a person reaches; enlightenment is ongoing an increases with the growth and development of the practitioner.

Actually every human being is already enlightened, it is just a matter of bringing out ones’ inner light. Enlightenment is gauged by the ignorance of others, as is “intelligence.” By today’s standards most people on Earth are enlightened when compared to the behavior of ancient cave dwelling people. How ignorant, unconscious, or unaware, the population is determines how enlightened some people are seen as. If everyone's inner light was shinning brightly into this world and we were all in expanded cosmic consciousness while here on earth there would be no such thing as enlightenment.

The term “enlightenment” is a comparative analysis of the average person and of average understanding, anything above average is usually seen as enlightened. However, as I said earlier spiritual enlightenment is ongoing; it does not rest on a peak. When someone does something better than someone else people will often call that person a “master.” All of this stuff is relative, or in relation to the status quo.

I say don’t consciously seek spiritual enlightenment, as it is but a way station on your continued journey; and it will come whether you seek it or not. In fact don’t have any ideas about what you are seeking beyond the physical because your ideas can interfere with your progress on the spiritual path. We live in so, so many, mental boxes, and in my opinion we have to free ourselves from all of those constructs. It is the mental boxes which we live in that causes us so much pain and suffering; the universe is free and wide open, and no I do not consider myself to be enlightened.

I am still learning and growing spiritually, and still am challenged by life, even though I have had lots of out-of-body and inter-dimensional experiences, and I have a lot of divine light in my life and experience a deeper sense of consciousness. Earthly standards aside, no one is better than anyone else; regardless of their title or perceived standing in life. We all need each other regardless of our spiritual abilities; if I lift you up I also lift myself up and if I put you down I do the same to me, because we are all connected.

there are many different ideas of enlightenment from what i have seen.

here are two that i know of.

1 refinement of living among a set of ideals. this is what i call spiritual culture. not something i have faith in. but many do and it brings them joy.

2. opening up to an energetic component many refer to as bliss. this can have many ideas for some people. but it is possible for it to become without. by moving beyond the coming and going of spiritual intoxication. to endless spiritual intoxication. once that has happend then there is no more this is and this isnt. everything is in bliss. whether you are from one culture or another. whether you are doing this or that. whether you like this thing or that thing.

[It Is]

I've kind of changed my mind about "enlightenment" a bit over my life.

When I was younger, I was open to the possibility, but I had some very fantastical ideas about what it entailed - such as moral perfection, unlimited love, joy, bliss, superpowers, unlimited knowledge, no suffering etc etc.

Then after years of experience I started thinking of "enlightenment" in a similar way to what Starman expressed in his OP. Ie. just an ongoing process of maturity and maybe also skill in having various mystical experiences.

Now, however, I'm open to the possibility that it may be possible to have an experience [or transmission] so powerful that it kind of gets locked in and no maintenance is required. I believe what most mystics/gurus are referring to when they speak of enlightenment is the shift of identification from "me" to void/nothingness/source. From a slightly more scientific perspective, maybe it's got something to do with activating all the chakras - which in turn, suck in enough energy to get the mind to see things as they really are.