Is Spirituality about you and your happiness only?

Reflecting on recent events, and the posts and contributions of the good people on this forum, it occurs to me that some people see spirituality as "about me."

"My wealth"
"My experiences"
"My dreams"
"My growth"
"My wow-moments"
"My insights"

Anyone see spirituality related to helping "others" - our fellow brothers and sisters, peace in the world, narratives etc.

How do you see spirituality and it place in doing something that relates to the word "service"?

Thanks

JL

(This is a repost)

Well....it is about oneself really. One can't tread another's path - in fact part of waking up to spirituality surely is realising just how conditioning and materialism control people's mundane paths en masse. Once breaking away from that you're on your own path: self (or spiritual) development. You can try to persuade someone to follow your path, you can throw ideas, demonstrate how it works for you but it's up to those others what they do - how and what they can learn if they choose to.

Someone presents their ideas here and others can contemplate what they have to say, comment, add their tuppenceworth.

Helping others is not necessarily "spiritual" (in the sense that most benevolent people are charitable but don't try to explain their acts in spiritual terms. It could be that the more developed someone is (in non-material things) that they more readily help people or at least inspire them. Imposing one's spiritual ideas on someone isn't necessarily helping them. We might just show them signposts to help them develop, perhaps aid in solving their problems, offer support and so on but it's up to the other what they take up. You could make a case that it's dangerous with someone vulnerable. Bad advice could worsen their problems. But...it's their path.

Just my view, though.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Well....it is about oneself really. One can't tread another's path - in fact part of waking up to spirituality surely is realising just how conditioning and materialism control people's mundane paths en masse. Once breaking away from that you're on your own path: self (or spiritual) development. You can try to persuade someone to follow your path, you can throw ideas, demonstrate how it works for you but it's up to those others what they do - how and what they can learn if they choose to.

Someone presents their ideas here and others can contemplate what they have to say, comment, add their tuppenceworth.

Helping others is not necessarily "spiritual" (in the sense that most benevolent people are charitable but don't try to explain their acts in spiritual terms. It could be that the more developed someone is (in non-material things) that they more readily help people or at least inspire them. Imposing one's spiritual ideas on someone isn't necessarily helping them. We might just show them signposts to help them develop, perhaps aid in solving their problems, offer support and so on but it's up to the other what they take up. You could make a case that it's dangerous with someone vulnerable. Bad advice could worsen their problems. But...it's their path.

Just my view, though.

Your post points to my own understanding Lorelyen.

Each individual plays its Own role, walks their own path. We are both individuals and a collective. There is no ‘’my way’ ‘this way’. The way and life is your own., it’s not necessary to project that as the way others should experience themselves and life. We are all unique pieces of the whole creation.

As for service, being myself and understanding myself through many streams of life, allows me to be an aware participant. The roles assigned as to what we should and shouldn’t be doing, is really just about the one who decides this. Spirituality is not about just being of service. Take out labels and people are just doing what they want and can do.

Life is not just about suffering. Life is about everything life is and offers. I prefer my cup full to move and live. So if I dont honour myself, It will catch up with me. Life is about living. Living your life is the dream you create. I like my dreamer self.

Originally Posted by JustBe

Spirituality is not about just being of service.

I never said it's "just" but this is a theme I see in nearly all religions and spiritual traditions. Interesting that it's not perceived as relevant by you, JustBe.

Originally Posted by JustBe

Take out labels and people are just doing what they want and can do.

Yes, a butcher is just doing that, and a farmer is just doing that, a mother is just doing this, and a shooter is just doing that other thing.

The danger of spiritual thinking is thinking that spiritual higher truths are equal in subjective reality. It's not that "labels" matter - it's that actions (or lack of) do.

JL

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by janielee

I never said it's "just" but this is a theme I see in nearly all religions and spiritual traditions. Interesting that it's not perceived as relevant by you, JustBe.




Yes, a butcher is just doing that, and a farmer is just doing that, a mother is just doing this, and a shooter is just doing that other thing.

The danger of spiritual thinking is thinking that spiritual higher truths are equal in subjective reality. It's not that "labels" matter - it's that actions (or lack of) do.

JL

You can look anywhere in life and see something as relevant. Where you reside and notice life is just where your focused. The self that understands, compassion, loving kindness, is the self that leads itself through all life experiences. When you’ve looked at suffering, carnage, killing opened to a more aware direct seeing in this light, of yourself, the balance in yourself moves aware and open to what is.

Nothing needs to be a stand out, nothing needs to be more relevant than something else. In balanced awareness from within, you understand, are aware and move aware with all life experiences. Nothing is left out of that completeness.

So no I don’t see it as irrelevant.

Originally Posted by JustBe

As for service, being myself and understanding myself through many streams of life, allows me to be an aware participant. The roles assigned as to what we should and shouldn’t be doing, is really just about the one who decides this. Spirituality is not about just being of service. Take out labels and people are just doing what they want and can do.

Life is not just about suffering. Life is about everything life is and offers. I prefer my cup full to move and live. So if I dont honour myself, It will catch up with me. Life is about living. Living your life is the dream you create. I like my dreamer self.

This seems to me so pertinent. "Aware participant." It may not necessarily be spiritually inspired but it brings a knowing involvement in the service given. The decision we have to make.

I fully agree with your closing paragraph. It's up to us individually to work out how to deal with life's vicissitudes. it comes down to motivation in the end. I often read the word "bliss" here which brings with it implications about what an individual believes about their current state. Could be that their circumstances make life a pain and they want freedom from the chores necessary to survive - but to me bliss is just getting on with it. There's little point about spirituality for its own sake. To me it's about living.
.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

This seems to me so pertinent. "Aware participant." It may not necessarily be spiritually inspired but it brings a knowing involvement in the service given. The decision we have to make.

I fully agree with your closing paragraph. It's up to us individually to work out how to deal with life's vicissitudes. it comes down to motivation in the end. I often read the word "bliss" here which brings with it implications about what an individual believes about their current state. Could be that their circumstances make life a pain and they want freedom from the chores necessary to survive - but to me bliss is just getting on with it. There's little point about spirituality for its own sake. To me it's about living.
.

Certainly Lorelyen.

Being an “open” aware participant where your willing and open to what is, simply means your not chasing after, attached too, need to make be, have too, should be doing, but rather, walking open aware of yourself first and foremost, so one is more present in themselves and of course then present and aware with ones environment. In my mystery school learning, it was emphasised quite clearly, take care of your own yard first, from there, one moves more clear in the way I am describing. I’m a great believer in presence but also aware, not everything in my world is for me to be tending too.

Discernment and awareness of others and their part in this interconnected world plays into my field of vision quite regularly. Sometimes the care and tending too is for another. Even when circumstances may seem harsh and difficult. Your place within the whole may be needed with itself, with something else entirely. Until your aware of such matters a so called spiritual person, may believe he/she should be going so much more. I’ve been observing a homeless man in my vicinity. The first time he was ahead of me walking the pavement, quite close to me. I thought, he is heading to the cafe where I’m heading! Sure enough he was. I thought as we drew nearer I would buy him some food, it seemed a natural arising in me. As I walked through and sat down, I observed his moves. I didn’t want to invade him unnecessarily. He motioned towards two ladies and just stood with his head down, no talking. He stood there the longest time. They watched him and soon one engaged him. I’m not sure what was shared, but she got up and got him food and a large drink. Two days later I noticed him in front of my car park at the supermarket. He was talking out loud, so again I observed him, thought I’ll just sit here a little while and discern what this closeness once more was showing me. Just in that thought, a van pulls up and out hops a man with a tag around his neck. He sits with him and engaged, walks him to the van and gives him a large drink and s few resources. I thought, he’s ok for now. Off I went.

Your quite on the ball about bliss. There is a tendency with strong emotions to hold strong beliefs about what and why it’s occuring. Yet it’s all about movement, moving through or moving something to reveal more. Life is all about movement even for someone not moving. There is still life moving through.

I’ve bounced through dark nights, spiritual awakenings, strong emotions, strong feelings and here I am living all that as myself. The unearthing of self certainly understands the nature of becoming and realising continuously, but then perhaps there are those who live with spirituality, not as the be all, end all, but for a better quality, grounded, balanced existence. I’m in that zone.

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Well....it is about oneself really. One can't tread another's path - in fact part of waking up to spirituality surely is realising just how conditioning and materialism control people's mundane paths en masse. Once breaking away from that you're on your own path: self (or spiritual) development. You can try to persuade someone to follow your path, you can throw ideas, demonstrate how it works for you but it's up to those others what they do - how and what they can learn if they choose to.

Someone presents their ideas here and others can contemplate what they have to say, comment, add their tuppenceworth.

Helping others is not necessarily "spiritual" (in the sense that most benevolent people are charitable but don't try to explain their acts in spiritual terms. It could be that the more developed someone is (in non-material things) that they more readily help people or at least inspire them. Imposing one's spiritual ideas on someone isn't necessarily helping them. We might just show them signposts to help them develop, perhaps aid in solving their problems, offer support and so on but it's up to the other what they take up. You could make a case that it's dangerous with someone vulnerable. Bad advice could worsen their problems. But...it's their path.

Just my view, though.

Thanks for your honest response, Lorelyn.

I guess it comes down to how "Spirituality" is defined (see post #5 above)

I've noticed that on this forum spirituality is indeed quite liberal. I started a thread some time ago on how people define/d awakening and it also affirmed my observation that on this forum, it's quite varied.

I'll share more of my thoughts later, but I wanted to thank you for the sharing.



JL

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by janielee

Reflecting on recent events, and the posts and contributions of the good people on this forum, it occurs to me that some people see spirituality as "about me."

"My wealth"
"My experiences"
"My dreams"
"My growth"
"My wow-moments"
"My insights"

Anyone see spirituality related to helping "others" - our fellow brothers and sisters, peace in the world, narratives etc.

How do you see spirituality and it place in doing something that relates to the word "service"?

Thanks

JL

(This is a repost)

Spirituality is the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul, as opposed to material or physical things. (dict.)

So, spirituality isn't about helping or service.

If you're asking what should we be concerned about, you have to firstly get an answer to what is your purpose of coming here, on Earth now. You can't learn that answer from others, or rationalize it yourself.

Originally Posted by inavalan

Spirituality is the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul, as opposed to material or physical things. (dict.)

So, spirituality isn't about helping or service.

If you're asking what should we be concerned about, you have to firstly get an answer to what is your purpose of coming here, on Earth now. You can't learn that answer from others, or rationalize it yourself.

Merriam-Webster

Definition of spirituality

1 : something that in ecclesiastical law belongs to the church or to a cleric as such
2 : CLERGY
3 : sensitivity or attachment to religious values
4 : the quality or state of being spiritual

Definition of spiritual (Entry 1 of 2)

1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : INCORPOREAL
spiritual needs
2a : of or relating to sacred matters
spiritual songs
b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal
spiritual authority
lords spiritual
3 : concerned with religious values
4 : related or joined in spirit
our spiritual home
his spiritual heir
5a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : SPIRITUALISTIC