The end times

I just want to get a conversation started on this topic. The end times has been interesting to me for some time. Ever since me and my friend had the same dream on the same date about a double edged sword in which we were represented to be either side of the blade. This has deeper conotations between the two of us but I also found out it's talked about in revelations as coming out of jesuses mouth. Soon after this i became very spirtual in the christian faith and experienced feelings of great stress about the time i live in. I believe God through his Spirit was sharing these feelings with me and others in this world. Even non-christians have felt this presence of the world ending. It seems to have become more widespread and explained inside of multiple ideas and beliefs.

Now I know ever since jesus ascended to heaven we have been waiting for his return. And many have failed before about predicting the end. But i don't know any date or anything I just have that feeling that something important will happen soon on earth. I do not believe the rapture though...it seems like God would want us to go through this together. But anyway it's just something i want to talk about with fellow christians...or if you are not christian and would like to talk about this matter i would be glad to hear from you too. Please no nay sayers though. I know there's a chance the end may not be soon, more prophesy must be fulfilled but if you don't belive in the end times whatsoever share your statements on another forum please. And thank you to those who do want to dive into this interesting topic.

[Saint Seraphim]

Hello Hoobs
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams." Acts 2:17

[theophilus]

I think it is clear from the Bible that we are living in the end of the present age.

But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end.Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.
Daniel 12:4 ESV

The first sign associated with the time of the end is that many will run to and fro. It seems to me that this refers to faster means of transportation. In Daniel's time the fastest way someone could travel was by horseback and that remained true until the invention of the railroad in the 19th century. Now it is possible to go anywhere in the world in just a few hours.

We are also experiencing a great increase of knowledge. There has never been a time in history when so many scientific advances have been made in such a short period of time. Not only is knowledge increasing, but the development of the internet makes it easier for everyone to have access to it.

Here is an excellent article on this subject:

http://www.raptureready.com/soap/wood5.html

Another indication we are in the end times is the existence of the nation of Israel. The Bible foretells that the Jews will return to their homeland and once again have a nation of their own. These prophecies seem to be in the process of being fulfilled.

Here is an excellent site for learning more about what the Bible says about the future:

http://www.divineintervention.ws/FRAMES.HTM

[Chrysaetos]

Of course people always have to deal with the way the universe works, and with nature's destructiveness. People seek meaning in a web of randomness. Relying on prophecies to explain their lives is a common theme and has been done for centuries.

Our time is hardly special in that regard. The people during the first half of the 20th century experienced wars, diseases, technological advancement.. all sorts of stuff. The people in the Middle Ages experienced religious wars, diseases, the plague, a mini Ice Age, and I could go on. Point is, people always want to believe they live in the endtimes. Deep down they are unhappy with the destructive and random forces of the universe. They can't handle it. They want some sort of celestial being in the sky watching over them, some sort of imaginary friend.

I don't blame them. But I do blame them if they use their fantasies to advance religious propaganda.

I used to study Biblical prophecy a lot... Then finally one day, something struck me. After looking at the Biblical account of the coming of messiah, I noticed that the Jews had their own religious ideas about who the messiah would be, and even how he would come... So when Jesus came on the scene, they overlooked him in their ignorance, blinded by what their religion had taught them.

I then wondered if perhaps in the last days, if things will transpire that are outside of the realm of human belief. After all, there are a lot of religious people these days that fit the bill of the Jewish religious leaders of old. Could it be that what they have taught the masses is skewed and bent to their way of interpreting scripture? And then when those times are upon us, many will not even know it, or recognize the event of the second coming?

I don't wish to knock anyone or their beliefs, but over the years of studying, I have found out that the Christian church has delude much information, borrowed from other religions, (even though some claim that it is not so.) They have stomped out certain information and tweaked the Bible to suite the doctrines they have constructed.

I just wonder if maybe many have been set up to believe a set of doctrines and events that will have many in those days overlooking the obvious. After all, history does seem to repeat on planet earth... The Jewish religions of old made their own traditions of men and they missed the mark in a very big way... And here we are, some 2000 years later, with big organized religions making their own traditions of men and labeling them as gospel/God sent truths...... So might they miss the next installment of this chapter in a very big way..

I think it's certainly food for thought and best to keep a bit of an open mind.

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

Of course people always have to deal with the way the universe works, and with nature's destructiveness. People seek meaning in a web of randomness. Relying on prophecies to explain their lives is a common theme and has been done for centuries.

Our time is hardly special in that regard. The people during the first half of the 20th century experienced wars, diseases, technological advancement.. all sorts of stuff. The people in the Middle Ages experienced religious wars, diseases, the plague, a mini Ice Age, and I could go on. Point is, people always want to believe they live in the endtimes. Deep down they are unhappy with the destructive and random forces of the universe. They can't handle it. They want some sort of daddy or celestial being in the sky watching over them, some sort of imaginary friend.

I don't blame them. But I do blame them if they use their fantasies to advance religious propaganda. If we take a look at Revelations we can see that Nero comes close to being the ''anti-christ'', he fits it perfectly. The prophecy wasn't about the future, it was most likely about what happened back then..

And these are excellent points to go along with what I have written.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by The Sphinx

I used to study Biblical prophecy a lot... Then finally one day, something struck me. After looking at the Biblical account of the coming of messiah, I noticed that the Jews had their own religious ideas about who the messiah would be, and even how he would come... So when Jesus came on the scene, they overlooked him in their ignorance, blinded by what their religion had taught them.

I then wondered if perhaps in the last days, if things will transpire that are outside of the realm of human belief. After all, there are a lot of religious people these days that fit the bill of the Jewish religious leaders of old. Could it be that what they have taught the masses is skewed and bent to their way of interpreting scripture? And then when those times are upon us, many will not even know it, or recognize the event of the second coming?

I don't wish to knock anyone or their beliefs, but over the years of studying, I have found out that the Christian church has delude much information, borrowed from other religions, (even though some claim that it is not so.) They have stomped out certain information and tweaked the Bible to suite the doctrines they have constructed.

I just wonder if maybe many have been set up to believe a set of doctrines and events that will have many in those days overlooking the obvious. After all, history does seem to repeat on planet earth... The Jewish religions of old made their own traditions of men and they missed the mark in a very big way... And here we are, some 2000 years later, with big organized religions making their own traditions of men and labeling them as gospel/God sent truths...... So might they miss the next installment of this chapter in a very big way..

I think it's certainly food for thought and best to keep a bit of an open mind.

Mark 13:21 "At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it."

hmmm. so when Jesus returns no one witnessing the event can say "Look! there he is!" or the event being witnessed is not to be believed as the return of Jesus. that's quite a conumdrum because someone in the awed crowds witnessing His triumphant return would surely say "OMG! Look! there He is! Jesus!"

gee ... so maybe Jesus will return as a woman. now wouldn't THAT be the end of the world! LOL

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

Mark 13:21 "At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it."

hmmm. so when Jesus returns no one witnessing the event can say "Look! there he is!" or the event being witnessed is not to be believed as the return of Jesus. that's quite a conumdrum because someone in the awed crowds witnessing His triumphant return would surely say "OMG! Look! there He is! Jesus!"

gee ... so maybe Jesus will return as a woman. now wouldn't THAT be the end of the world! LOL

The debate began early in the days of Christianity, some said Christ returned on the day of pentecost in the form of the Holy Spirit... Others said he would return bodily. There were differing ideas among Christians at that time before anything was even written down. Years later, when the first church councils were put together and the Bible dissected, everyone who held a different view that the roman church were labeled heretics and even killed. And let's face it, the folks who held the first council of Nicaea were not exactly the greatest guys in the world... They had a lot of odd ideas that married Roman paganism to Christianity. They had some odd ideas that got merged with the Christian ideology... and when Luther broke from the Catholic church, he took some of those ideas with him... and they have been passed down over the centuries to every church that even exits today.

Look at it this way... protestants scoff at Roman Catholic belief. Yet all of protestantism has gotten it's main foundation of doctrine from the Roman church. And what if the Roman church got it wrong? Which they did get a lot of things wrong. Inventions of purgatory etc. There were some scary minds in those long ago councils... and some of the main Christian doctrines were passed by the very skin of their teeth. Some of the ideas were so outrageous in those councils that men fought for weeks over them among themselves. I think there were even a couple that Constantine just ruled to pass on his own authority.

And let's not even get into how the Bible was shredded and even re-worded over time by this same Roman Church... and then by protestants later on. The funny thing is that many men have tried to make the Bible say what they believe.... Just read the New Testament alone and see how many footnotes you find that say that certain paragraphs and words were not in the earliest texts.... And that is only the tiny tip of the iceberg.

So could the big religions have some things really messed up... You bet.

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

Mark 13:21 "At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it."

hmmm. so when Jesus returns no one witnessing the event can say "Look! there he is!" or the event being witnessed is not to be believed as the return of Jesus. that's quite a conumdrum because someone in the awed crowds witnessing His triumphant return would surely say "OMG! Look! there He is! Jesus!"


gee ... so maybe Jesus will return as a woman. now wouldn't THAT be the end of the world! LOL

Matthew's account of what Jesus said includes something that Mark left out.

So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:26,27

When Jesus returns everyone will see it so there will be on need to tell someone else that he has returned.

Originally Posted by theophilus

Matthew's account of what Jesus said includes something that Mark left out.

So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:26,27

When Jesus returns everyone will see it so there will be on need to tell someone else that he has returned.

Just for arguments sake here, and although it may sound kind of funny; But what if Jesus returned in a UFO and every eye saw it? What would the fundamentalists do then? Would they accept that or warn everyone that this was not the real Jesus?

It only takes one thing out of place to make those buried in religions doctrines to be thrown for a major loop.