Trying to understand Runners

[ForeverRestless]

Thanks everyone.

Originally Posted by Mused

You made the right decision by not chasing anymore. Rejection is tough....esp after you thought you knew what someone feels

You dont really want a person who treats you that way, anyway. You want someone who can pull their weight. He showed you who he is as a person...

Mused, I really go back and forth about this. The way he treated me, and what that means. The things about him that he did that were bad were more my trigger points than objective evil.

I had a fear of being abandoned, so he said he didn't want to move forward

I grew up in a deeply religious context and thus have a deeply engrained fear about sex or being seen as promiscuous. So I consider sex something precious and I would never want to be viewed as a casual conquest. But my TF reframed our relationship as just that.

I lived across an ocean from him, so I can relate to reasons he may have been scared to move forward. But as I've said on the forum before, he had not had a sexual life for a long time before I came along, due to some personal issues. He believed he was impotent, and he was hiding himself away from potential relationships or even casual sex relationships. The process of becoming physical together was fraught with fear from his side. There was a lot of shaking, a lot of "freaking out" on his part. He did not think he would be able to perform. But we had a beautiful and ideal sexual relationship and then I went back to my home country.

It was weeks after I came home that he told me he needed to have sex again, he was going crazy. And he said basically, "maybe that was the whole point of us meeting. For me to be healed, sexually." Suddenly, the loving words we'd shared were somehow purged. It was all about the sexual relationship? OK. Then he told me basically two major things: 1.) I'm not prepared to pursue a long distance relationship. It's too much for me right now. and 2.) I am going to go out in the world and reclaim my sexual life, and I'm going to keep doing it until I feel fully viable again. And I'm going to keep doing that until I meet a woman who changes my mind [makes me want to settle down].

The message was clear. I was out of the picture. He thought he could replicate what we had with the next person. He'd just been out of the game too long. But now he was back in the game.

It was just this delicate combination of things he said to me that hurt me on a deep level that had to do with my childhood hurts.

As far as him being cruel... It's a relative concept. He was always respectful of me, always complimentary. He told me I was an ideal woman. What a woman should be. He told me I was beautiful, gorgeous, sweet, the most intelligent person he had ever met. He told me I was great, but I was too far away. He told me he would always care about all my thoughts, my views, my life, my goals. He had a lot of respect and admiration for me, so would we call that mean?

What he said to me about not wanting to move forward, that was either a rejection of me, or intercepting my rejection of him.

The sex pursuit... that was pure ego. He was on an ego high after our time together and I think it clouded his views on things. He said he'd never gotten more attention than he was getting now (because being with me rebuilt his confidence) and he was on an ego trip. He thought he could have everything he wanted. AND find what we had in the next woman. He thought what we had was infinitely replicable. I knew better.

I never got to ask him if he figured that out, too, after committing to a new woman who lived near him.

I know he did a lot of profoundly hurtful things, but on some level, I can see why he did them. It's because I have always been able to get inside his head.

Of course I don't want any relationship where the man has sex with a bunch of people or isn't willing to meet me halfway. But TF had made it clear he wasn't prepared to actually enter a relationship. Though he said if I were on his continent he would. Even if I lived in another country he would come to see me once a month. But he could not visualize it working with me across an ocean. I think a bit of that was cowardice, a fear to fail. And having to accept he would be sexless again after such a long time alone before I came along. I get it, but it doesn't mean that what he did was not profoundly hurtful to me, and he knew it was, and he did it anyway. He chose himself - not me.

The whole point of the story I wrote above was to say... Maybe he made all these choices, and hurt me so deeply, bc he was afraid of not being good enough for ME. He was so often nervous around me, as if I intimidated him. His shaking was always visible. I realized I had a certain power over him. Sometimes all I had to do was make eye contact, and he'd fall apart. He'd freak out. I knew I had an effect on him. It was intense, and all that intensity and pain was easy to expunge when I could just stay over on my side of the world and he wouldn't have to face it again. He chose himself. He chose easy. He chose close to home. He chose against me. But I still wonder if he chose happiness.

It's been almost a year and a half, and I don't see him look happy anymore. The pictures tell me how tired and sad he looks. I don't know if he's tormented by something else, or if it's because of me. But all the choices he made... did not seem to make him happy. I only wish I could see that consummate joy again on his face that I was able to bring him when we were together.

But it's not my place. He chose his path, and I have to follow mine.

[taurusnsane]

.. and you cant move across the ocean? why he needs to be the one?

[ForeverRestless]

Originally Posted by taurusnsane

.. and you cant move across the ocean? why he needs to be the one?

He never asked. I kept waiting for him to ask me to come over there and just give it a shot. But he never did. Suggesting something like that to him would have been an immense amount of pressure. I may be the "chaser" but I have never been a woman that chases men in the traditional sense. I've had guys I've dated come back and tell me they could never tell how much I liked them. I have guys give up pursuing me because I'm too hard to pin down. And my high school boyfriend was deeply hurt when I told him he needed to spend more time with his friends. I'm somewhat traditional and I've always been largely RECEPTIVE to male attention. I am not an aggressive pursuer... I let them come to me. I wait. I never call a man, I never text first, etc. etc. Being with my TF was sort of extraordinary in that we did not need to play any of those games. I was honest about how much i was feeling things for him and he was honest about how much he was feeling things for me. It was very freeing.

Things got more complicated when we got the distance between us. Literally. He was able to push me to the side more easily because he couldn't see my face, hear my voice, remember our connection.

If he was pushing me away, I wasn't going to push harder to be close to him. One day I told him, "I trust that if you like me you will make a plan to see me."

He said, "I know it's my turn to come to you. And I have so many things to work out."

I didn't argue because he was already freaking out about all the complicating factors. To overwhelm him by the thought that a woman was coming across an ocean to try out a relationship with him, and he would have all this pressure to make it serious or permanent, or what if it didn't work out, and the failure would be on him... I didn't want to put that burden on him. I didn't want to enter his life so strongly unless he really wanted me there, in it. But I would have sold all my things and moved for him.

The ironic thing is I may end up doing that anyway. Well, moving to another country on his continent, but pretty far from him. Some opportunities are coming up and it's very attractive to me. I have a friend coming to visit me later this month (he's actually an ex boyfriend from long ago) to talk about me joining him in the same program abroad. I only worry he might expect a revival of our old relationship if I go. But I am tired of sitting still where I am. I always felt like I was meant to travel more and go places, so maybe this is the start of that.

I'm on a tangent. I still see my TF as having free will. Even if I was technically in his continent, it would be up to HIM to decide if he wanted to contact me. I cannot force his hand. He has to make every decision about what he wants and how to open the door to it. I would never force myself on him. Even during our last conversations, I never said anything like, "I know you felt what I did, and you are running, you are hiding." No, I just said to him, "All I know is what i felt, and for me, this was special." My experience is only my individual perspective. I cannot claim any sovereignity over his mind or control over what he does.

He is a man... he has to tell me what he wants, right? He never told me to travel back to him. Well, actually he said "come back!" right after I left, but that was the last time.

He hasn't spoken to me in a year and a half, so of course my ego nags at me and tells me maybe this is one-sided. But I know what he and I experienced together. I know that's not the kind of thing you just forget. I know it was meaningful for him too. And I know this on a level like I've never known anything else in my life.

[taurusnsane]

Yeah, men need to be first yada-yada. Well, is twin connection regular one? If zi hadnt showed my twin my loyalty and devotion without receving back, we wouldnt be at the place we are now

[taurusnsane]

Its ego talking, that I can understand. I have men blocking me because they fell in love with me yet I dont show any interest. They send flowers, gifts... And the one I love, have never given me flowers. Chocolate yes but nothing else while others shower me with gifts and I dont show any interest, I have said to many my heart is taken forever yet they see no ring, no relationship status online lol, no pictures of him in my social media.

I can choose whoever I want, if I would and would have pursued the "man needs to chase" state. With twin, it didnt matter.

[ForeverRestless]

Originally Posted by taurusnsane

Its ego talking, that I can understand. I have men blocking me because they fell in love with me yet I dont show any interest. They send flowers, gifts... And the one I love, have never given me flowers. Chocolate yes but nothing else while others shower me with gifts and I dont show any interest, I have said to many my heart is taken forever yet they see no ring, no relationship status online lol, no pictures of him in my social media.

I can choose whoever I want, if I would and would have pursued the "man needs to chase" state. With twin, it didnt matter.

Yes, the gifts my TF gave me were more meaningful. He bought me dinner as a gift on the night we thought would be our last together. He later bought me a special bread in the grocery store because he saw I liked it, a candy because he saw I liked it, etc. He shared both bottles of his best wine his father had given him for Christmas. He said it needed to be saved for a special occasion and I was special. When I asked for him to give me a shirt to keep with me to remember him by, he did not hesitate. It stopped meaning as much once his smell left the shirt, though. I'll always remember how sweet it was when he made me breakfast in the inn of the little town we visited together. Or grabbing me when I crossed the street so he knew I was safe. Or reminding me constantly to protect my purse because he was worried someone would try to pickpocket me. He was so good at looking after me and taking care of me. Making me feel safe, almost like a father would. I wasn't used to that. It reminded me of that song by Alanis Morissette, "You treat me like I'm a princess. I'm not used to liking that. You ask how my day was..."

:) Makes me smile just thinking of that part. He would always check in with me later to ask how my day was going. "So, is everything going fine?" "Are you having a good day?" Or just "Tell me something." Anything I had to say, he was eager to listen to it. Didn't matter what. He compared listening to me talk to hearing someone read him a fable. God, I loved him. I still love him.

[taurusnsane]

There is nothing wrong to pursue the person you love. Male or female, it doesnt matter.

[Blissful]

Originally Posted by ForeverRestless

Yes, the gifts my TF gave me were more meaningful. He bought me dinner as a gift on the night we thought would be our last together. He later bought me a special bread in the grocery store because he saw I liked it, a candy because he saw I liked it, etc. He shared both bottles of his best wine his father had given him for Christmas. He said it needed to be saved for a special occasion and I was special. When I asked for him to give me a shirt to keep with me to remember him by, he did not hesitate. It stopped meaning as much once his smell left the shirt, though. I'll always remember how sweet it was when he made me breakfast in the inn of the little town we visited together. Or grabbing me when I crossed the street so he knew I was safe. Or reminding me constantly to protect my purse because he was worried someone would try to pickpocket me. He was so good at looking after me and taking care of me. Making me feel safe, almost like a father would. I wasn't used to that. It reminded me of that song by Alanis Morissette, "You treat me like I'm a princess. I'm not used to liking that. You ask how my day was..."

:) Makes me smile just thinking of that part. He would always check in with me later to ask how my day was going. "So, is everything going fine?" "Are you having a good day?" Or just "Tell me something." Anything I had to say, he was eager to listen to it. Didn't matter what. He compared listening to me talk to hearing someone read him a fable. God, I loved him. I still love him.

Dear FR,

Great post and you said it like it is!!

Like taurus I too feel you somehow need to break the EGO barrier in between... this is the blockage and you know it well!! Its not about being a guy or a girl... its about being honest and true to your self. You know by now that he's no ordinary guy to you and none of the traditional societal rules and notions apply in anyway. The peace is more profound when the love expressed is unconditional and fearless... irrespective of the outcome... and done by carrying no expectations. Its the greatest lesson about true love IMO.

BTW the things you said about what happened with him shows that he was being truly honest with you about the things he needed to resolve/pursue. The sweet things about how he was with you are adorable!! I am sure he is in pain too... for having let you go and for having hurt you. I can bet he thinks you are better off without him! The male ego is much much more stronger than the female ego IMO because they are experts at walling up their emotions and truth with cryptic logic. I know exactly what you mean when you said most guys can't read you coz I too am like that... so your TF too (like mine) will have trouble reading you till you make yourself crystal clear. He probably thinks you are happy and content in a life without him. Contrary to what you think I feel the ball is in your court, especially coz you are the more aware/awakened one in the relationship.

tc
-Blissful

[aubreyiris]

I really appreciate how concisely you described the runner mentality. That is soooo accurate. I was the runner. He committed suicide. No happy ending in this life, but he has told me and shown me that he is waiting for me on the other side and that it's all good now. He told me "It's ok. Everything is ok now. We'll be together again soon. I forgive you." It's hard. So hard though. Knowing that I did that to him.

[ForeverRestless]

Originally Posted by aubreyiris

I really appreciate how concisely you described the runner mentality. That is soooo accurate. I was the runner. He committed suicide. No happy ending in this life, but he has told me and shown me that he is waiting for me on the other side and that it's all good now. He told me "It's ok. Everything is ok now. We'll be together again soon. I forgive you." It's hard. So hard though. Knowing that I did that to him.

Well, he always said I could get inside his head and understand him, so I guess I do.

What you said is shocking. What was your runner journey like? Why did you run and what were your last conversations like before this happened?

I'm so glad you've heard from him at that it will all be OK later. Once all this 3D nonsense ends, and the things of earth pass away, I'm so glad all the pretenses of life will dissolve and we'll just see what is, and embrace the souls we love. Really looking forward to the end of this stress and seeing my TF on the other side, too.