Contradictions everywhere

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Here's a logical/reasonable/common-sense hypothesis:

The issue of 'fault' or 'no fault' which you float is a complete distraction which you continue to use to divert your own and others attention from what's really at issue here-now. You were born and continue to be this way because that was (and since you haven't developed beyond that, at least not much, since then) still is the psychospiritual configuration, or 'gestalt', of your soul, inherited from previous lives. 'Bodies' are essentially just 'instinct'-driven machines. Empathy etc. is a a function of spiritual (i.e. soulful) development. .

This is akin to someone saying to a paralysed person in a wheelchair "there is nothing wrong with you, so get up and walk". I am fully aware of my own personal limitations in regards, no matter what those who do not have autism and who do not understand it have to say....so, unless I can see your degree in neuropsychology here...

So, if that is what you want to believe irrespective of the facts, fine by me...it's yet another illogical 'neurotypical mind' at work. lol

However, since you think that empathy is a function of the soul inherited from past-lives...here we go:
https://www.autismspeaks.org/family-...tive-functioni

If empathy is not there...it IS NOT THERE and trying to feel an emotion which is non-existent doesn't work, spiritual or NOT...I mean hey, I didn't write the 'spiritual rules' and I would like to know who did...because I would love for somebody to show me EXACTLY where it says "you MUST have empathy and compassion to be 'spiritual' or else, you are not". SHOW ME!

What about all of those Advaitins who say that the whole world is Maya/Illusion then? where is THEIR empathy? or the people who see connections with other human beings as just another 'material attachment' they need to drop to attain moksha...where is THEIR empathy? etc...etc.

I am autistic and I can pretend to have compassion just to 'fit in' with other so-called 'spiritual people' I mean, I have got all of the basics down; "Oh, I am so sorry to hear that...you POOR thing...you must feel SO bad...my heart bleeds..." and if I REALLY try, I can raise a crocodile tear or two...should I have to do this to be a 'spiritual person?' you tell me.

[Shivani Devi]

While I was out shopping today, my mind was engrossed in deep contemplation.

About 'contradictions' and all that...maybe somebody on SF can teach me or enlighten me as to this...

Why is it, those who say I must 'love everybody' and 'show kindness/compassion' and be 'tolerant of others' etc...are the very first who will verbally abuse me for disagreeing with them? When I complain about my life, why do the 'tolerant ones' say "that's just your karma, so shut up and grow a pair"? why do those who 'love everybody' say "I don't like you?" so...what do I believe, their words or how they behave towards me? I just don't get it!

Why is it that I bring out the very worst in humanity?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

While I was out shopping today, my mind was engrossed in deep contemplation.

About 'contradictions' and all that...maybe somebody on SF can teach me or enlighten me as to this...

Why is it, those who say I must 'love everybody' and 'show kindness/compassion' and be 'tolerant of others' etc...are the very first who will verbally abuse me for disagreeing with them? When I complain about my life, why do the 'tolerant ones' say "that's just your karma, so shut up and grow a pair"? why do those who 'love everybody' say "I don't like you?" so...what do I believe, their words or how they behave towards me? I just don't get it!

Why is it that I bring out the very worst in humanity?

You don't bring out the very worst at all, they just use you as an excuse

[A human Being]

Is it fair to say that you feel a lot of resentment towards your mum, SD? You complain about her quite a lot, it would seem to be the logical inference.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If empathy is not there...it IS NOT THERE and trying to feel an emotion which is non-existent doesn't work, spiritual or NOT...I mean hey, I didn't write the 'spiritual rules' and I would like to know who did...

Nobody except your mother as far as I can see (not me or anyone else here, at least) is saying you (or anyone else!) must be or do anything ... that is a 'paper-tiger' (imaginary tiger) you are 'creating' (projecting) which you obviously enjoy hatefully 'slaying', presumably because you can then feel 'righteous' (like your mother?) and powerfully do so (instead of really confronting the 'scary' issue of how powerless you feel to change in desirable ways. (Hint: It can't be done 'egotistically' (yogini-pride-nically)! - It can only be done by humbly appealing for the help necessary to do so from a 'higher' power. From Ch.6 of The Bhagavad Gita" "Let him seek liberation by the help of his Highest Self, and let him never disgrace his own Self. For that Self is his only friend; yet it may also be his enemy. To him who has conquered his lower nature by Its help, the Self is a friend, but to him who has not done so, It is an enemy.")

How do you think that (some) fish that couldn't (i.e. didn't initially have capacity) breathe 'air' proceeded to develop such capacity? What 'spiritual rules' do you think 'permitted' (actually I would say, 'spurred') such evolutionary (evolution=change) development to 'happen'? According to the "spiritual rules" you CHOOSE to cow-tow to and USE to justify your staying the same (your preference to stay the same instead of 'evolving' further) ... according to those "rules" , no one could ever 'evolve' (grow/develop) into a 'higher' way of being ever! Talk about being 'selective' about what you regard as spiritual truths and falsehoods - the entire history of mankind is a history of change (evolution) 'upward' - as well as the 'extinction' of souls that stubbornly chose not to do so.

From my book: "The logic {logic SD!!!!] is quite simple: Those who close their minds to what is really going on are bound to stray from Life’s path. Those who harden their hearts become stones in effect and go no further. Only those who recognize and responsively engage with the creative impulse within others around them drink “of the fountain of the water of Life freely” and flourish as resonant parts of the Whole.

It is true that remnants of selfishness are still alive and kicking. Aside from myriad lesser expressions, dinosaurean [reptilian?] characteristics and strategies are [personally and] organizationally embodied and employed by a huge number and variety of groups. They are a passing phenomenon however, for, as explained, they ring their own death-knell. The very fact that they seek to aggrandize themselves at others’ expense and do not help to improve the general welfare ensures that this be so. As the suffering they cause sparks the desire for evolutionary change and fuels its fire, accused and accursed in realms of Mind and Spirit, they will be reduced to ashes, in terms of what goes on, basically, just serving as fertilizer."

Oh well, once an 'addicted to feeling bliss' yogini, always an 'addicted to feeling bliss' yogini, who just can't (or is it won't????) tolerate and handle the feelings of trouble/stress associated with the task of developing further ... aye what? No one said it was easy. maybe .... Ask 'em fishes whole crawled out on 'hard' ground, whose 'offspring' eventually learned to walk and run and fly, Lady Jane!

As of now, it looks to me like you just want to remain a "I can't help it if I'm a defiant and resentfully complaining bratty 'kid'!" forever. If that is what you CHOOSE, so it will be - that's the "spiritual rule"!

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

However, since you think that empathy is a function of the soul inherited from past-lives... If empathy is not there...it IS NOT THERE and trying to feel an emotion which is non-existent doesn't work, spiritual or NOT...

Problems associated 'empathy' continue on (i.e. are inherited' from) past lives. 'Empathy' itself is simply derives from the capacity and choice to imagine what one would feel and think if one were in another's 'shoes' (so to speak). I know that you have a huge capacity to imagine (I've seen you do that in spades!) and that you are capable of deep (sensitive?) feelings (also quite evident from things you have shared), SD. And I know that you have a huge capacity for empathy, which has shown itself in/via deeply compassionate feelings and words spoken (also in spades!) to a 'similar' soul who expressed being in a 'hellish' predicament' in another thread (a while back).

Your denial of and refusal to share and act on 'loving' feelings, words and behaviors (most immediately, in relation to your admittedly problematic mother) is therefore clearly a function of a CHOICE you are making, presumably because of some inconvenience or pain or conflict or loss you would experience 'in' yourself and so have to 'accept' and figure out how best to response-ably manage if you did so.

Spare me your bull-dung about 'empathy' not being 'in' you (or your 'kind', in terms of psych-diagnosis) as a potential. If you wish to discuss what makes acknowledging its presence and acting on it problematic for you and/or them, however, I'm all ears and heart. If not, and you just want to keep repeat-repeating you denials and complaints, then I just want to say to everyone else here: if you have thigh-high rubber boots, you'd better put them on - the loose-liquid bull-dung is getting really deep!

Originally Posted by davidsun

Problems associated 'empathy' continue on (i.e. are inherited' from) past lives. 'Empathy' itself is simply derives from the capacity and choice to imagine what one would feel and think if one were in another's 'shoes' (so to speak). I know that you have a huge capacity to imagine (I've seen you do that in spades!) and that you are capable of deep (sensitive?) feelings (also quite evident from things you have shared), SD. And I know that you have a huge capacity for empathy, which has shown itself in/via deeply compassionate feelings and words spoken (also in spades!) to a 'similar' soul who expressed being in a 'hellish' predicament' in another thread (a while back).

Your denial of and refusal to share and act on 'loving' feelings, words and behaviors (most immediately, in relation to your admittedly problematic mother) is therefore clearly a function of a CHOICE you are making, presumably because of some inconvenience or pain or conflict or loss you would experience 'in' yourself and so have to 'accept' and figure out how best to response-ably manage if you did so.

Spare me your bull-dung about 'empathy' not being 'in' you (or your 'kind', in terms of psych-diagnosis) as a potential. If you wish to discuss what makes acknowledging its presence and acting on it problematic for you and/or them, however, I'm all ears and heart. If not, and you just want to keep repeat-repeating you denials and complaints, then I just want to say to everyone else here: if you have thigh-high rubber boots, you'd better put them on - the loose-liquid bull-dung is getting really deep!

davidsun,

On our better days perhaps we should be more hesitant to criticize another especially on something like questioning the empathy of others(or their apparent lack thereof) if we do not demonstrate our own lack of the very same thing. Nearly every posting of these forums is, to some extent, a demonstration of our own egos. My own observation is that every posting here is tainted with surrendering to some program of the ego. When we accept that we can more better understand(and forgive) the utterances of others.

“It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.”

~Charles Darwin~

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Molearner

davidsun,

On our better days perhaps we should be more hesitant to criticize another especially on something like questioning the empathy of others(or their apparent lack thereof) if we do not demonstrate our own lack of the very same thing. Nearly every posting of these forums is, to some extent, a demonstration of our own egos. My own observation is that every posting here is tainted with surrendering to some program of the ego. When we accept that we can more better understand(and forgive) the utterances of others.

There is a 'method' - I call it 'tough-love' - in what you see as my ego-'madness' which I hope you positively appreciate someday, Mo.

I appreciate the intent which give rise to your comment, nevertheless.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Molearner

davidsun,

On our better days perhaps we should be more hesitant to criticize another especially on something like questioning the empathy of others(or their apparent lack thereof) if we do not demonstrate our own lack of the very same thing. Nearly every posting of these forums is, to some extent, a demonstration of our own egos. My own observation is that every posting here is tainted with surrendering to some program of the ego. When we accept that we can more better understand(and forgive) the utterances of others.

Exactly!

Although, to his credit, he DID quote the Bhagavad Gita, which is what I was looking for all along.

Yes, I do harbour quite a bit of resentment towards my mother anyway.