Does the idea that 'this place' is a Dream upset you?

Without Consciousness there is no Maya. Without Maya there is still Consciousness.

Before the Big Bang exploded into Maya there was Consciousness. After the Big Chill/Crunch Maya ceases but still there is Consciousness. Perhaps it's even a more fundamental beginning and ending of physical/objective reality that encompasses near infinite Big Bangs and Big Chills/Crunches. A much grander scale of cycles.

Between Big Bang and Big Chill/Crunch Consciousness experiences Maya. Before Big Bang and after Big Chill/Crunch Consciousness experiences absence (this is different than absence of experience which implies absence of Consciousness).

The sticking point or point of confusion seems to be language, specifically words like unreal, illusion, dream. I like to think of it as less real as in transitory vs. Absolute or Infinite. That which changes, has a beginning and an end, is less real than that which doesn't change. That which is Absolute, Infinite.

To be frank the questions of who or what am I and what is real and unreal now seem second order to me. The interesting question is "Why?' and for me it comes down to experience of Maya vs. experience of absence. The purpose of Maya is for the Absolute to experience Itself, so yes, Consciousness and Maya are One.


Two Steps to the Not-Two.

Short Version - https://youtu.be/kPdsAPlK2Js

Long Version - https://youtu.be/linp33m9rIk?list=PL...F2rGcUqIb4O F

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

I think David is not contradicting any Advait principle . He too is aware of inability of worldly objects to satisfy one on an ongoing basis independently.

He merely states that some seekers and Gurus (who talk of one-moment instant ultimate enlightenment /realization/spiritual bliss ) are incorrect and miss the ongoing reality. He believes that non-duality is continuous ongoing matter. He appears to have good knowledge Brahma Satya Jagan Mithya and respects it .

So I see no differences here unless any of you brings any other point .

Davidsun did not contradict any Advait principle, that is not the point. My response to him, was to the comment he made to me about brahman being the flow of life. I do not disagree with that but saying brahman is just the flow of life and love and joy does not help anyone on a deeper level. A lot of people (including those who are new to spirituality ) do not see the flow of life as love and joy. A lot of people think that the flow of life in the universe is chaotic or random because of the beliefs they have that are not based on truth/brahman. He said brahman is the flow of life, he did not say once that brahman is the cause of the flow of life. Brahman/truth is all there is and is not limited to just the flow of life.

The point was Davidsun said Brahman/truth is delusional, which is totally and completely absurd. Brahman/truth/absolute or ultimate reality is infinite, eternal, and indivisible, hence, all-pervading, wheher a person see's it or knows it or not. That is the foundation of truth/brahman. It is easy to see that Davidsun is pre-occupied with the flow of life part of brahman and is partly maya (partly ignorant) of all brahman/truth. There is a deeper aspect to brahman or truth than just the flow of life. Saying that brahman is the flow of life and love and joy sounds beautiful but, it could be a play on emotions and even more conditioning.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Without Consciousness there is no Maya. Without Maya there is still Consciousness.

Yes, because maya is ignorance of brahman. Brahman is all there is.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Niz said something like 'Why go beyond the dream, you will only find more dream'.

Who is Niz?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Davidsun did not contradict any Advait principle, that is not the point. My response to him, was to the comment he made to me about brahman being the flow of life. I do not disagree with that but saying brahman is just the flow of life and love and joy does not help anyone on a deeper level. A lot of people (including those who are new to spirituality ) do not see the flow of life as love and joy. A lot of people think that the flow of life in the universe is chaotic or random because of the beliefs they have that are not based on truth/brahman. He said brahman is the flow of life, he did not say once that brahman is the cause of the flow of life. Brahman/truth is all there is and is not limited to just the flow of life.

The point was Davidsun said Brahman/truth is delusional, which is totally and completely absurd. Brahman/truth/absolute or ultimate reality is infinite, eternal, and indivisible, hence, all-pervading, wheher a person see's it or knows it or not. That is the foundation of truth/brahman. It is easy to see that Davidsun is pre-occupied with the flow of life part of brahman and is partly maya (partly ignorant) of all brahman/truth. There is a deeper aspect to brahman or truth than just the flow of life. Saying that brahman is the flow of life and love and joy sounds beautiful but, it could be a play on emotions and even more conditioning.

I think difference appears to be more of nuances than that of substance. His main grudge (from all his earlier writings ) appears to be spiritualist/ advaitists often ignoring real life duties in the name of spirituality/non-duality(which many a times stems for incomplete knowledge of such concepts) .

Nevertheless I think DS would be best to clarify if it he really means something different.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

I think difference appears to be more of nuances than that of substance. His main grudge (from all his earlier writings ) appears to be spiritualist/ advaitists often ignoring real life duties in the name of spirituality/non-duality(which many a times stems for incomplete knowledge of such concepts) .

Nevertheless I think DS would be best to clarify if it he really means something different.

That may be true but Davidsun commented that Brahman/truth is a delusion and that there is no ultimate of anything. Davidsun making that comment is 100% mithya (false) and leads to maya (ignorance) of the ultimate everything, which is brahman/truth.

Edit: I do not think I can get any clearer on the above topic than what I said above.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

That may be true but Davidsun commented that Brahman/truth is a delusion and that there is no ultimate of anything. Davidsun making that comment is 100% mithya (false) and leads to maya (ignorance) of the ultimate everything, which is brahman/truth.

Edit: I do not think I can get any clearer on the above topic than what I said above.

Brahman is truth and truth is the singularity or foundation most people call god, brahman, source, the seen universe and parts of the universe we can't or do not see etc. The opposite of the truth causes mithya (false mental and emotional conditioning) and maya (ignorance) of the truth, this maya (ignorance) causes illusions, separation or duality. These illusions caused by the combination of Mithya (false mental and emotional conditioning) and maya (ignorance) of the truth are what causes people pain, suffering, limitations, scarcity etc etc.

Brahman or truth is the ultimate or absolute reality that is right in front of our eyes, in the right here and now. Someone who says differently, is causing mithya (false mental and emotional conditioning), which leads to maya (ignorance) of the truth. There ain't no ifs, ands or butts because singular Truth is never ever untrue at any time, place, or circumstance. The Singular truth, which is truth or brahman is all there is, transcends all mithya (false mental and emotional conditioning) and maya (ignorance), time, space, limitations, and causation.

If you are spreading mithya (false mental and emotional conditioning) and maya (ignorance) of the truth, you are part of the "problem", not a solution.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Who is Niz?

Short for Nisargadatta. It was one of his statements to indicate that what was sought already is. On the other hand he sometimes advocated practice. What he taught seemed to vary with what he thought suited different seekers. For example he said to one seeker who was despairing about ever succeeding wth practice, that he was in a most advantageous position, suggesting that his realization was close when dissolutioned with practice.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Short for Nisargadatta. It was one of his statements to indicate that what was sought already is. On the other hand he sometimes advocated practice. What he taught seemed to vary with what he thought suited different seekers. For example he said to one seeker who was despairing about ever succeeding wth practice, that he was in a most advantageous position, suggesting that realization was close when dissolutioned with practice.

Ok, thanks

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

If you are spreading mithya (false mental and emotional conditioning) and maya (ignorance) of the truth, you are part of the "problem", not a solution.

I believe what u say about Brahman/Mithya is all right ,perfect and according to scripture dictated wisdom only . Nobody (probably including DS) should have any issue with it. I think DS's Delusion comment is with respect one-moment-instant-ultimate-kind-of-non-duality which many seekers perhaps think is possible without doing anything / without any realization .

Let's wait for DS to understand whether he meant anything different.