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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #51  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:02 AM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
Of course we may speak of and discuss these topics without entering a meditative state but often we do. I often do. It feels like shifting gears in a car. Have you had this experience?

I'm not sure but it could be what you speak of. My closest estimation is this state of peace and centredness, assuredness, joy, a smile right here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
Speaking normally one moment and then some sort of a connection is made, a feeling of enablement comes upon us and information begins to flow seemingly all by itself?

The only way I can relate is the words come out without thinking. It is .. maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
So we can speak normally about chakras or channeling. We can purposefully enter a meditative state and channel information about chakras or channeling or we may mix the two together, a little of each.

I have never tried writing about things which I have not experienced or personally investigated, so I {personally} could not talk so easily about chakras for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
It is helpful to remember here that the practiced person may enter a deep meditation by taking only one breath. The change can happen in an instant. Most of us have to practice for a couple of years first... but we all have it in us. There is nothing really foreign or exotic about it.

Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
Preachers often begin speaking and then shift up to meditation. Later they will say the "spirit of the Lord" was with me. I have heard them speaking really fact trying to keep up with the flow coming at them. Just another facet of being human.

Nod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
May we recap the basics? We are familiar with the physical plane which is of three parts generally. Solids, liquids and gases. The physical plane is "informed"by the ethereal plane. This is the subtle copy of the physical. It is made of etheric matter. We can often see and feel this because it is so very close to the physical in vibratory quality. Next up is the astral emotional. It is made of astral emotional matter. This is a very necessary component of the Earth scheme because it gives life to the vegetable, animal and human kingdoms. We all have ready access to this plane of energies. We very easily create throughtforms on this plane. Next up is the mental plane. It is comprised of mental matter. Animals and humans have access but in varying degrees. When we think in everyday terms we are operating in the lower of the mental subplanes. When we use our abstract minds we are at the high end. We are capable of making thoughtforms in the mental plane which will be reflected in the astral too. We humans have the beginnings of access to planes which are higher. One of these is commonly called the divine. Many humans have working access here but most of us are only beginning to function on it. Higher than the divine is the atmic. Here, likewise, a few humans, masters, have working access.


Interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
We may be in sync with our souls on either the ethereal, the astral or the mental and in various of the subplanes of each. When we pray fervently in an emotional way we are building an astral plane copy of that prayer and sending it to God (or to whoever we prayed to). We can do this also on the mental. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Those who claim to be in sync with their souls really are but not necessarily on the high end of the mental. If we contact our soul on the astral we encounter mostly just a pre recorded message or idea from our soul. Perhaps an answer to a prayer which has been left there for us. But.... if we contact our souls on the high mental plane we now are able to have a present tense meeting. In channeling this means questions can be asked and answers will be given. This is a very inadequate answer. There is so much more to it.

Yes I think my question is how one would know - in sync with the soul. On what plane. Or I guess from a Buddhist stance, it's fine to set aside these questions, and this is also relevant.

Whilst so fascinating, I also presume/approach it that for a beginner these matters are more than distracting.

Once one has attained genuine inner peace and some degree of genuine enlightenment/Awakening and modification, I presume these matters can be reviewed if of interest. However, how does one learn about these things? I presume, it would be either a guide well versed in these matters and/or one's own spirituality.

But I would regard this as completely secondary to true spiritual development. Perhaps it's like baking a cake, put all the core ingredients together, then perhaps we can talk about icing or different patterns on the decorations. How would you see it, James/bartholomew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
Visualize all of these planes as being concentric circles to the Earth and it begins to make ready sense. For instance we all know about the solid Earth and water and the layered atmosphere above. The subtle planes all begin at the center of the Earth but each is of greater size. We therefore find, after some study, that the lower part of the mental plane is about 22,000 miles from the surface of the Earth. You see? We have everything we need right here in our celestial neighborhood. Herein is a hint about the workings of astrology too.

OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
Our souls are made of and live in the higher subplanes of the mental plane. If we want to merge our brain consciousnesses with them we have to go to where they are. This explains the need for a certain meditative practice over another.

I think - I see ... shifting gears. I see what you mean now. How interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
Note: Our guides commonly communicate with us through the astral plane. They do this because they know we are capable of finding their messages which have tangible forms. They create a "form" of astral matter and leave it where we will find it even if we are in an emotional state. Have you seen this happen? We also create on the astral. Every time we get mad and yell in frustration we are making astral plane copies of the experience. They will stay there forever until either a knowing soul or the astral plane housekeeping staff cleans them up. Here is refer to the many little worker spirits that exist.

If so I would have a lot to clean up from my past. I am grateful to anyone who has helped me with this. What happens if these things are not cleaned up, if it is relevant to converse about? I do feel bad.

Re: guides, perhaps...there are ideas sometimes. Interesting (Again).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew

Creation is what we are about. We create in the physical as everyone knows. We gain access to the various subtle planes and work on them knowlingly or unknowlingly. At a certain point we become adept enough to create on a plane. A master soul has a greater ability. He or she can create on higher planes than we can. This is something which is part and parcel of spiritual growth. It is not the reason for growth but it is a secondary result.

Is creation on a higher plane more powerful in a way, bartholomew? I assume its secret and its Grace is that only those with true spiritual humility can enter those doors and this is its own beauty. Would you please comment on the difference here between creation on what you call the mental plane as opposed to others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
The next part is personal. The physical James has long been on the mental plane in most matters. At the high end of this plane our souls normally operate. As we age we trend closer to our souls. We come to know them as very personal beings. When we are thus trained we find that entering the meditative or channeling state is much easier because we have come to so much closer to it in our everyday waking awareness. It is not difficult in a technical sense. When speaking of these things there is no way to avoid mentioning a definite truth. As we live lifetimes after long lifetimes we grow spiritually. That is our souls grow spiritually as a result of the physical lives. After a certain point in evolution the physical body and personality become aware of the soul. Now there is a waking union between the two. These people can enter a fully conscious state of communion with their souls in just an instant of time. This is not something which can be provoked by artificial means. Most people contact their souls through the astral plane only. There is nothing wrong with this. In matters of spiritually there are no rights and wrongs. We all do what we can do according to our abilities which are measures of the growth of our souls. I had to say this to be clear in my response. We may ask "how do we know if we are speaking with our souls on the mental or on the astral"? It is OK to be careful and cautious with this. One very good way to determine this is by examining our auras. In the ethereal version of our bodies the tale is told. It is there for any and all with vision to see. This is the surest dependable method that I can mention here.

What about for people who do not know of auras? This is a slightly theoretical question as I feel that a smile in the heart and love as our guide is enough. But as usual my curiosity also plays a role.

Regarding James, acknowledge. The only other point I think of here is there are some who are old in age on this world and we can see no correlation - I presume you mean old as in life after life, if there is such things.

Thank you,

shiningstars
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  #52  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:44 AM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningstars
Thanks again.
This is very interesting and I will return to this thread in about 12 hours
Is it really necessary to quote the whole of bartholomew's post, in your own words, long winded post just to add this? Only to requote everything once more in your detailed reply?
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  #53  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:51 AM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
Is it really necessary to quote the whole of bartholomew's post, in your own words, long winded post just to add this? Only to requote everything once more in your detailed reply?

"Long winded" was not my phrase.

Carrying grudges, claiming meditation "results" - oh the irony.

shiningstars
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  #54  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:45 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I remember in retreat meditating for 12 hours a day for days on end - no headache. I often sit for 90 minutes or 2 hours, and in posture that becomes somewhat uncomfortable, but the basic idea is peace of mind regardless of the body sensations. If a person does happen to get a headache, then they may be at peace with that and after a time it will pass. Of course the retreat, being rigorous and sticking to the pure meditation of mindfulness (as outlined in the satipatthana sutta). Falling asleep is different to meditation, and we sit upright mostly to prevent people nodding off and snoring away in the hall.

In this way of meditation as a formal practice there isn't any effort to silence the mind. One starts with anapanasati, which is 'observe breath'. One will soon recognise just how noisy the mind is, but persist in observing breath. On retreats the mind settles down quite a lot in the first three days. Practitioners become stiller in their physical and mental poise. If we transfer this into say 30 hours, a person practicing for 1/2 hour might expect a fair degree of quietude within 2 or 3 months. Personally I suggest 30 minutes as a bare, bare minimum - at least 45 minutes for sitting practice. I find a one hour session is better and it is that last 15 minutes that really tests the equanimity.

No headaches, so no worries about that.


Sometimes people post things regarding meditation that can deter others from trying it which is irresponsible, as you have spent time in an Ashram your imput is valuable and helps beginners
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  #55  
Old 09-03-2017, 08:27 AM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningstars
"Long winded" was not my phrase.

Carrying grudges, claiming meditation "results" - oh the irony.

shiningstars
How about addressing the subject matter of my post, hugely excessive quoting which is contrary to good netiquette?
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  #56  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:59 PM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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markings

You would be well served by admitting to your assertion that I used the words 'long winded post' was wholly incorrect.

Your desire to express resentment and annoyance at quotations shows that, as I said originally in this thread, meditation techniques like moving rapidly to avoid the mind chatter, is weak tea. Needing and demanding results by a certain timeframe is also reflective. Some techniques can work to channel aggression or concentration in martial arts for example, but it is not yet any degree of true spiritual strength.

shiningstars
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  #57  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:11 PM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningstars
markings

You would be well served by admitting to your assertion that I used the words 'long winded post' was wholly incorrect.

Your desire to express resentment and annoyance at quotations shows [snip...]

shiningstars

As to you not using 'long winded', post 41
Quote:
I like long winded, I enjoy reading your perspectives.
[snip ...]
Thank you again, James/bartholomew.

shiningstars
I do not show annoyance at quotations.
I show annoyance at excessive, unthinking, lazy quoting.
There is absolutely no excuse to quote 50+ lines only to add "Me too", or similar.
Simply trim them down to the essence.
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  #58  
Old 09-03-2017, 07:08 PM
bartholomew bartholomew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I remember in retreat meditating for 12 hours a day for days on end - no headache. I often sit for 90 minutes or 2 hours, and in posture that becomes somewhat uncomfortable, but the basic idea is peace of mind regardless of the body sensations. If a person does happen to get a headache, then they may be at peace with that and after a time it will pass. Of course the retreat, being rigorous and sticking to the pure meditation of mindfulness (as outlined in the satipatthana sutta). Falling asleep is different to meditation, and we sit upright mostly to prevent people nodding off and snoring away in the hall.

In this way of meditation as a formal practice there isn't any effort to silence the mind. One starts with anapanasati, which is 'observe breath'. One will soon recognise just how noisy the mind is, but persist in observing breath. On retreats the mind settles down quite a lot in the first three days. Practitioners become stiller in their physical and mental poise. If we transfer this into say 30 hours, a person practicing for 1/2 hour might expect a fair degree of quietude within 2 or 3 months. Personally I suggest 30 minutes as a bare, bare minimum - at least 45 minutes for sitting practice. I find a one hour session is better and it is that last 15 minutes that really tests the equanimity.

No headaches, so no worries about that.



Gem... I, James, not Bartholomew, made a mistake in this post. I did not mean to say that both meditation and channeling for long periods will sometimes bring headaches. Meditation will not. Channeling will. I sometimes write long and involved statements. These are mostly channeled directly but not always. I have to be very careful to proof whenever I write regardless, because I am human, I sometimes fail at this.

Those of us who are conscious channels know full well that care must always be taken to preserve the integrity of the connection.
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  #59  
Old 09-03-2017, 10:13 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew



Gem... I, James, not Bartholomew, made a mistake in this post. I did not mean to say that both meditation and channeling for long periods will sometimes bring headaches. Meditation will not. Channeling will. I sometimes write long and involved statements. These are mostly channeled directly but not always. I have to be very careful to proof whenever I write regardless, because I am human, I sometimes fail at this.

Those of us who are conscious channels know full well that care must always be taken to preserve the integrity of the connection.

In the school of meditation I'm familiar with there aren't 'guru figures' as such because the Buddha taught people to be discerning, and instead of believing what any teacher might tell them, they must see for themselves what is true. Because of this, meditation teachers in the sangha don't dispense facts, but rather, teach the meditation which can be helpful to people in overcoming their illusions and seeing for themselves what is true. The problem with introducing a 'channeled being' is that people take that to be a 'special spiritual thing', and as such, start to blindly believe that voice and become influenced by something other than their own insight. What is encouraged in the meditation schools is a practice which stablises ones mind so that the person can see more clearly, and understand what is true through their direct encounter. It is a healing process which instills in a person the equanimity or pure awareness, and by resolving stuck or blocked mentality, emotion and their physical manifestations, the human being as a life form better channels the infinite purity of love that arises from the very essence of their being.
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  #60  
Old 09-03-2017, 10:28 PM
Gwutzi Gwutzi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Surfer
Hi, I meditate, with like a year break, for about 4 years. I try to focus on a mantra, but the mind uses every opportunity to disturb the silence in between the chanted mantras(i say them mentally actually). Sometimes it seems like I can sense the silence underlying the whole area of my mind, but can't quite get there. Any ideas how could I improve my practice? All help will be greatly apprieciated.


Hi,..

I did not get to read your post completely, since my mind went on about answering the question and given advise to begin with..

That turbulence of noise is not against you, it rather wants to guide you to the formate of that mantra, like a speed checker or melody embracer
So while you do need some silence, try to work with it rather against it like the river and its flow.. Alternate it till it gets to the point of permitting you to speak and say that mantra, by that time it has alternated you if you do it right to conclude you into its matter and appeal of being One with this whole nature, So give that a try and let it be sounding with a millions of words and ways... Good luck mate
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