Why does GOD exist?

Originally Posted by JustBe

I am curious what your just is, is all about in you?

Being honest, I don't need the intellectual discussion because that would taint it.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Indeed. And unconditional love lies beyond the intellect which is why it cannot be understood. Conditional love pertains to personality, unconditional love is a quality of Soul.

If you believe that unconditional love is conditional just the same and only exists in relationship to conditional love then perhaps it is beyond your experience.

Peace.

Regardless of the level, unconditional Love is still conditional so unconditional Love is not a 'quality' of the Soul. When people say they have Love for another they often mean they Love that person on the condition that..... Unconditional and conditional are in a relationship regardless of what you attach them to. Love exists beyond any prefix or qualifier and it is just Love.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Unconditional Love is conditional just the same and unconditional Love only exists in relationship to conditional Love. Love is and that's all it is, but it's not something you understand from the perspective of knowledge or conceptualisation.


You can't use the intellect to understand what is beyond the intellect.

Unconditional love has nothing to do with conditional love.
Unconditional love is just that, simply and unquestionably unconditional.
It is in you and with you.
It just exists whether or not you feel it and w/o you even knowing it.

Self love is unconditional.
You love yourself unconditionally;otherwise, you do not exist.
No matter what you think of yourself or of your life, you keep yourself to survive. - This is unconditional self love. So, you are already in unconditional love.

Parents (mentally sane ones) love their children unconditionally. Most parents will sacrifice their own lives for survival of their children.
There is the unconditional love between soul connections that helps the other soul to learn and to continue its journey, even with the ultimate sacrifice in physical sense.

Your soul, your higher self are in love with you unconditionally; hence the reason, why you are even here.

Our entire soul journeys and our spiritual existence are possible due to unconditional love.
You don't exist w/o it.

i've seen it. unconditional love. lt's rare and is NOT emotive.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hi there Moonglow


Thank you. It was a strange experience, the car smash. How we lived through it I really don't know, we should have been gone, and some of it seems to defy the laws of physics. We're just glad that the car was smashed up and not us.


We're supposed t have a different understanding of God though, if there was only one perception of God then God wouldn't be God and there wouldn't be any need for anyone else to be here. But if you don't hold onto things so much nowadays, what are the reasons for that? I think most people co to the stage when their priorities change. Sometimes beliefs aren't so important any more, and neither is butting heads with people trying to reinforce your beliefs. Really, that's what it's all about at the end of the day.


If you're really trying to understand what God is, ask yourself what you get out of your belief in God because that's what it comes down to. Often Spirituality has very little to do with Spirituality and everything to do with the frameworks of the mind and brain. Humans don't do anything for nothing so a belief in God means something, it has a benefit somewhere along the line.



That reminds me. I've been thinking of doing some research just out of curiosity, in particular the Gospel of Thomas. Apparently that particular gospel is supposed to be a list of things that Jesus said and not a personal narrative from anyone else. From the little I have seen of it, I don't remember many instances of Jesus using the word God. He certainly refers to him as 'Father' much of the time as far am my leaky memory goes, which reflects his relationship with God.


Sometimes it's all quite simple, Moonglow. We create our own realities and what we express of God is a reflection of our own consciousness. So many times that very simple thing has escaped people's awareness - or has it been ignored? Because when we talk about God we're not talking about God, we re talking about ourselves.


I was raised Christian in the most part, although my mother had a hatred of God and anything religious. She did allow me to make up my own mind though, and it was through they eyes of others that I saw God. I didn't like what I saw. One of the local vicars calls me his Christian atheist because of a discussion we had. It took him a little while to understand what I meant when I said that although I was an atheist I could still uphold many of the Christian values. That took a little processing on his part but he eventually worked it out.


So, thirty pages and counting and are we any closer to finding out the reasons God exists? Is there such a thing or is God something we cn't see ourselves as being? Or can we simply get on with our Lives?

Hey Greenslade,

At present For myself things change, along with some beliefs. I have beliefs and at present most don't bother me, just how I am relating to things at present.

Belief in God, again tricky in the sense in what context it is being discussed. For me God in and of itself, don't know what exactly it is. It does come across as presence of creation and life.

But, there seems for some that virtues get attached to God. "Higher" virtues of love, charity, unity, compassion, and such. Which I am all for, but is it all God is and why it exists to promote such? If the Creater of all then yes and no. For other judgements exist. Evil, hate, carelessness, and such.

Yes, there is freedom of choice, but with this comes judgement. Each value seems to have a bit of each in each other. Like loving someone, but fearing he/she may come to harm or hurting another who may threaten harm. Is this not of what gets created and thus of creation in a way?

So, as I see it at present may shift and change later. If another insists that it be only one way or thier way, then it is time to step away. Let what is for self be for self, let what is for others be for them.

Seeing or stating God as "father" brings the thought; How is a fatherly figure portrayed?" Traditionally father was held as protector and provider. Isn't this in some teachings (Christianity) the way God is portrayed? Don't some people prey to be protected and provided for? Just find these thoughts interesting.

In short it is seeing myself and others as being. Nature is being as well. Life continues and the universe rolls on. I am OK with this.

Sure times call to adjust and make decisions. God as Creater in mind may change. In presence of creation and being just is and does what it may.

So, onward we go. Reasons are what one may find for oneself, in some ways. In other ways whether reasons are determined or not, does it change or stop life from happening and what is being?

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

This is unconditional self love.

Love is just Love, no 'unconditional' and no 'self'. As soon as you prefix it with qualifiers it's no longer Love you're talking about.

Originally Posted by janielee

i've seen it. unconditional love. lt's rare and is NOT emotive.

With respect Janie, what you've seen is the manifestation of Love. There is a Love beyond what is labelled as unconditional, one that doesn't need the word at all. 'Unconditional' doesn't come from heart-centred consciousness, it comes from the object consciousness that's the consciousness emergent of form - as in brain processes.


Unconditional Love comes from the Love that the ego perceives as conditional initially, but there is a Love that doesn't need either of those words. Both conditional and unconditional Love is emotive, and there is a love beyond the emotions and therefore beyond those words. When you drop those words and the processes which need them, that Love can come through

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hey Greenslade,

At present For myself things change, along with some beliefs. I have beliefs and at present most don't bother me, just how I am relating to things at present.

Belief in God, again tricky in the sense in what context it is being discussed. For me God in and of itself, don't know what exactly it is. It does come across as presence of creation and life.

But, there seems for some that virtues get attached to God. "Higher" virtues of love, charity, unity, compassion, and such. Which I am all for, but is it all God is and why it exists to promote such? If the Creater of all then yes and no. For other judgements exist. Evil, hate, carelessness, and such.

Yes, there is freedom of choice, but with this comes judgement. Each value seems to have a bit of each in each other. Like loving someone, but fearing he/she may come to harm or hurting another who may threaten harm. Is this not of what gets created and thus of creation in a way?

So, as I see it at present may shift and change later. If another insists that it be only one way or thier way, then it is time to step away. Let what is for self be for self, let what is for others be for them.

Seeing or stating God as "father" brings the thought; How is a fatherly figure portrayed?" Traditionally father was held as protector and provider. Isn't this in some teachings (Christianity) the way God is portrayed? Don't some people prey to be protected and provided for? Just find these thoughts interesting.

In short it is seeing myself and others as being. Nature is being as well. Life continues and the universe rolls on. I am OK with this.

Sure times call to adjust and make decisions. God as Creater in mind may change. In presence of creation and being just is and does what it may.

So, onward we go. Reasons are what one may find for oneself, in some ways. In other ways whether reasons are determined or not, does it change or stop life from happening and what is being?

Hi there Moonglow


What is a belief in God? What does that mean, really really mean? And is a belief in God any different to any other belief? If you have a belief that God exists, it is your belief. Do you believe you exist? You may have beliefs about how you exist and what you exist as, but there is still a 'you' that exists in whatever shape or form that takes. If you stop believing that you are this or that, you still exist just the same and you don't wink out of existence. When all belief in God has been suspended, then what? Do we then descend into anarchy and chaos because there is no fear for our immortal Souls if we do something wrong? Does God wink out and cease to exist? Or is God just a personification of all the virtues that you've mentioned? If God is a personification then Spirituality hasn't come such a long way after all, because the majority of the Pagan Gods were personifications of aspects of the metaphysical/Spirituality.



God the Father - that was the term Jesus was fond of. By the way, I had a look and the word "God" appears six times in the whole of the Gospel of Thomas. Jesus predominantly refers to God not so much as God but as Father, and that's a reflection of two thing. First of all it's a reflection of the consciousness at the time because Jesus would have used words that would have had the most meaning to the people he was addressing. The real understanding though is that it's a reflection of Jesus' relationship with God. So yes, he was trying to put across the concept of protector or someone that has Love for us no matter what. That's why Christianity was so popular with the down-trodden masses, the whole idea of salvation away from their hard Lives was quite appealing - just as appealing as the escapism of Spirituality.


The more things change the more they stay the same.


If God was father-like wouldn't he want us to come to the realisation that we are the Ones we have been waiting for? And while we're waiting for him, he's waiting for us.



"The secret of Buddhism is to remove all ideas, all concepts, in order for the truth to have a chance to penetrate, to reveal itself."
Thich Nhat Hanh


In his discussion there seems to be so many ideas and concepts that have been presented as truth. When our heads are full of our own narratives there's no room left for anything else, no truth can come through. The search for God always ends up in the same place regardless - inside ourselves.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Love is just Love, no 'unconditional' and no 'self'. As soon as you prefix it with qualifiers it's no longer Love you're talking about.

Oh... dear...
Love comes in many shapes, colors, and depths.

Unconditional love is like in cellular, spiritual, and energy levels. It just exists w/o any thoughts, reasons, or even awareness.

Conditional love is physical and emotional levels with reasons and with full awareness. You know why you love.
Like, one loves this, that, and whoever because of whatever. - mostly due to emotional and physical needs and feelings.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

With respect Janie, what you've seen is the manifestation of Love. There is a Love beyond what is labelled as unconditional, one that doesn't need the word at all. 'Unconditional' doesn't come from heart-centred consciousness, it comes from the object consciousness that's the consciousness emergent of form - as in brain processes.


Unconditional Love comes from the Love that the ego perceives as conditional initially, but there is a Love that doesn't need either of those words. Both conditional and unconditional Love is emotive, and there is a love beyond the emotions and therefore beyond those words. When you drop those words and the processes which need them, that Love can come through

Unconditional Love exists - in smaller and greater capabilities.

I already said unconditional love is not emotive.