Going Down The Rabbit Hole.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

of course there is no free will for the actors in the movie. they're scripted archetypes and will act as their characters are scripted to act. they can't behave any differently than their casted personality traits dictate or the plot wouldn't ring true and disbelief couldn't be suspended long enough to creat a reality.

it's all make believe. if you can be made to believe it then it's real ... at least in the moment.

pass the popcorn, please.

The movie story is a fable about life innit. Life isn't really like movie at all, though a movie is an imitation of life, you watch it and recount the story of events, so the things experienced only occur in memory, so are actually not factual, but are after the fact,

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Gem

The movie story is a fable about life innit. Life isn't really like movie at all, though a movie is an imitation of life, you watch it and recount the story of events, so the things experienced only occur in memory, so are actually not factual, but are after the fact,

well, i guess my mental sagas might be upwellings from the collective unconscious, elemental instincts personafied, ancestral memories encoded in my DNA with some imaginative embellishments added for drama. some folks might even believe such inner movies to be memories of their specific "past lives". for me the movies are emotion driven symbols of the human experience playing out on the big screen of my mind. i only relate to the characters and take the scenarios personally for as long as the movie lasts. then whatever revelation the movie may have offered becomes impersonalized and filed away by my intellect for future referrences.

[quote=Gem]What is at the bottom of it?
Decomposing vegetation & bunny poo, possibly an unexplored alternate source of fossill fuel

[Gem]

Is reason subjected to human intellect, or is human intellect subjected to reason... perhaps both.

I concluded that as a general rule the principle that all things which we very clearly and obviously conceive are true, only observing, however, that there is some difficulty in rightly determining the objects which we distinctly conceive.

... but is reason the only componant of the thought process? What of the belief and faith of a learned certainty that becomes the reality of your own existence... that enslaves your mind and blinds your eyes and breaks the spirit of your true soul... because of a concept you were made to accept as true?

Shouldn't we comprehend comprehension before accepting any belief or faith, thus our own certainty? ~ Rene Descartes

[andrew g]

Ive been reading a bunch of books lately and one little thing that really grabbed me was in a Deepak Chopra book. He was talking about perception and pointed out that the reason we see a marble as round is because of the shape of our iris. If we had a square iris we would see the marble as a pencil shape. Which begs the question.....what is the 'real' shape of the marble?

What this suggests to me (again, based on what Deepak said) is that there has been some kind of agreement on some level that humans experience a marble as round. In this sense, we could say that all of what is experienced boils down to a collective consciousness agreement. One of the implications of this is that ageing, pain, ill health and death are not actually inevitable because the experience of these things has been collectively agreed and can therefore change. As we come to understand further that we each have co-creative power within, we will become more conscious in our creating.

After I read the marble thing, I spent the next 15 minutes looking around at 'things' and acknowledging that just because I see them a certain way doesnt mean that they 'are' that way....its just how I experience them. It brought up a laughter from my belly....we live in a wibbly wobbly world! The book/movie 'Fear and loathing in Las Vegas' sprang to mind.

It seem's that a personal decision has to be made.

Is this life real or is it an illusion ? All of my perceptions and beliefs are formed by my perspective and in some case conditioning.

perspectives alter, some will identify the colour maroon as burgundy, dark red or claret...The colour remains the same. your name for it is a personal choice.

So as Internal Queries so very succinctly and yet perfectly descriptively put it.

it's all make believe. if you can be made to believe it then it's real ... at least in the moment.

Or come to believe it then for you it is real.


So what would we or should we do? disregard all our beliefs or embrace them in the full knowledge that a belief may not and probably will not be a shared belief.

I once saw Santa Clause as a Child, He was real enough to me back then. Today I figure I actually saw a seasonal department store employee. The point is..He was santa to me at the time.

go figure

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Gem

Is reason subjected to human intellect, or is human intellect subjected to reason... perhaps both.

lol when you're down the rabbit hole reason isn't exactly reasonable and the intellect is confounded.

I concluded that as a general rule the principle that all things which we very clearly and obviously conceive are true, only observing, however, that there is some difficulty in rightly determining the objects which we distinctly conceive.

we're all mad here.

... but is reason the only componant of the thought process? What of the belief and faith of a learned certainty that becomes the reality of your own existence... that enslaves your mind and blinds your eyes and breaks the spirit of your true soul... because of a concept you were made to accept as true?


Shouldn't we comprehend comprehension before accepting any belief or faith, thus our own certainty? ~ Rene Descartes

i very few beliefs in which i have faith but one that i continue to hold true is that the soul can not not be broken, soiled, sullied or otherwise changed, that the Soul is or arises from pure undifferentiated energy, immutable. however, "spirit" might be conceived as the personifying or symbolizing of the Soul so manifests in infinite variety, always changing and seeking new means and ways of expression. spirit doesn't expect to last forever. spirit understands "death".

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Neville

Now I do agree that some of the religious dogma is nonsense(to me personally), We may be at cross understandings. I am a dyed in the wool, bog standard pagan. I believe that the Sun maintains life as much as rain and the Moon. I believe Trees are sentient . I think Crystals and Rocks contain energy.I hear voices on the wind, see majesty in the tides etc etc .

So If I say to you that I believe falling from a cliff may kill me. it is a belief and not a fact, I may in fact be severly injured.

If I say to you .I will not be allowed in to heaven because I am an un believer , then that too would be only a belief.(One I don't subscribe too)

You contain within you the wisdom of the ages, Genetic Memories that go back beyond human memory, your story and everyone elses story is absolutely true despite the disparity of perspectives , which incidentally is understandable as every story is therefore individual. There is and have always been possibilities.

I like this very much.

I believe in the ultimate unity of All. I believe that "Everything is God" (it's a book title of an amazing book) and I see divinity in everything.

I think there is probably no core difference in what you and I believe about the essence and sanctity of life and consciousness...except the labels we or others use to call ourselves.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

i very few beliefs in which i have faith but one that i continue to hold true is that the soul can not not be broken, soiled, sullied or otherwise changed, that the Soul is or arises from pure undifferentiated energy, immutable. however, "spirit" might be conceived as the personifying or symbolizing of the Soul so manifests in infinite variety, always changing and seeking new means and ways of expression. spirit doesn't expect to last forever. spirit understands "death".

The distinctions which are made can only be made on the individual level, as distinction itself seperates two comparables, each having sight ... so sight itself, awareness, remains a universal function, and to touch the place where awareness arizes...

Originally Posted by Gem

Is reason subjected to human intellect, or is human intellect subjected to reason... perhaps both.

I concluded that as a general rule the principle that all things which we very clearly and obviously conceive are true, only observing, however, that there is some difficulty in rightly determining the objects which we distinctly conceive.

... but is reason the only componant of the thought process? What of the belief and faith of a learned certainty that becomes the reality of your own existence... that enslaves your mind and blinds your eyes and breaks the spirit of your true soul... because of a concept you were made to accept as true?

Shouldn't we comprehend comprehension before accepting any belief or faith, thus our own certainty? ~ Rene Descartes

Belief and Faith I think can bring you into Being. I watch Joel Osteen on TV. He is the most joyful, crys out of joy. You just see his eyes glistening with joy. He is in peace during down periods, because he knows he will propel even further once it has passed. He has found a different way of Being, by giving it to God. I guess belief and faith can really bring a person into Being.