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14-09-2011, 09:12 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattie
It may be that the forum is only reflecting the inherent nature of religion. Focusing on that which divides rather than than commonalities.
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That is what religion does, it divides, after all most if not all religions believe they have the truth, as Judaism itself does.
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A belief system is nothing but poison to your capacity to understand. Good words are used to hide ugly things. – Osho
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14-09-2011, 10:17 AM
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Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 12,239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoslice
That is what religion does, it divides, after all most if not all religions believe they have the truth, as Judaism itself does.
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There is some truth in that. However you yourself believe you have the truth too, so what is the difference?
Also it is worth pointing out that religions can unite too. People can be united by their shared religion and beliefs.
Many religious people are also very tolerant of other religions. Many people accept other peoples beliefs.
It is not a black or white situation, there are many shades of grey.
__________________
The Humility, the Pride and the Humiliation.
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14-09-2011, 10:30 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
There is some truth in that. However you yourself believe you have the truth too, so what is the difference?
Also it is worth pointing out that religions can unite too. People can be united by their shared religion and beliefs.
Many religious people are also very tolerant of other religions. Many people accept other peoples beliefs.
It is not a black or white situation, there are many shades of grey.
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I know that I AM the truth but to tell you what I AM, no I couldn't do that, to tolerate another's religion or beliefs, is in itself violence dressed up as meekness. It sounds like you haven't had much to do with religion, or seen what the other side thinks of other beliefs other than their self.
__________________
A belief system is nothing but poison to your capacity to understand. Good words are used to hide ugly things. – Osho
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14-09-2011, 10:35 AM
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Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 12,239
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It is true, I have never been a member of an organised religion. I tend to mix with bohemians and liberals. Who seem to be pretty tolerant most of the time. I know what you mean about closed minded people. Best to avoid them.
__________________
The Humility, the Pride and the Humiliation.
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14-09-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
So what is the Torah and the Kabbalah? In which books do they lie?
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The Torah is usually the first five books of the Tanakh, which by tradition were said to be written by Moses himself (which is generally accepted to be more metaphorical than literal, since Moses couldn't have possibly written about his death and burial lol); but in some cases it can refer to slightly different things: http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htmhttp:....org/torah.htm
The Kabbalah is the mystical tradition within Judaism: http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm One thing that article says, which is worth pointing out is that the popular conception of the Kabbalah is inaccurate and usually not the real thing. You can't pick up a paperback book and learn the Kabbalah.
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14-09-2011, 02:30 PM
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The word Torah doesn't have a direct translation into english. Basically it means 'Teachings of the variety that a father teaches his children'. It is generally used to refer to the 5 books of Moses but can also be used to refer to the teachings of Judaism as a whole, specifically those teachings which contain laws and practical advice.
'Kabbalah' means 'reception' and refers to the kind of knowledge which cannot simply be taught, but must be 'received' in a deeper sense by the student from a teacher in order to be known. Nowadays it refers to all the mystical teachings of Judaism.
The statement 'Torah and Kabbalah' can thus be translated as 'The Practical and Mystical teachings of Judaism'. In these senses, neither can be found in a single book, as Animus explained. Furthermore there are many different texts which present different truths.
The current tradition of Kabbalah uses a text known as 'The Holy Zohar' as the central text, which is a mystical commentary on the five books of Moses. It then continues in the teachings of the Ari z"l (recorded by his student, Rabbi Chaim Vital z"l) in a book called 'Etz Chaim' or 'The Tree of Life' which reorganizes the teachings of The Zohar into a more understandable form. Some continue with the commentaries of the Gra, which grounds the Ari z"l's teachings back in The Zohar. Beginners can find help in understanding these texts through a few modern commentaries, including 'Pitchei HaAri' and 'Matok MiDvash'. Logicians usually turn to the Ramchal's works, such as 'Derech HaShem', 'Klach Pitchei Chokhmah', etc.
Another main stream of mysticism, known as 'Chassidut', is related to Kabbalah but starts with slightly different emphases and thus arives at significantly different conclusions. Chassidut is a lot more spread out in its teachings and it has a lot of individual pockets of traditions. The two more accessible streams of Chassidut would be Chabad, based on a text called 'The Tanya', and Breslov, based on all the teachings of Rabbi Nachman, specifically 'Likutei Maharan', which are Rabbi Nachman's teachings assembled by his student Reb Nosson.
There are also many other great scholars who are not part of our the current central tradition but whose works are still greatly respected. These include: The Maharal of Prague (who created a Golem to save his village), The Ramak (a contemporary of the Ari z"l who arived at very different conclusions), The Ashlag (whose works unfortunately inspired the Kabbalah Centers).
There are also other ancient texts which are not looked at as often as The Zohar but exist at the same level of reverence. These include most notably: Sefer Raziel, Sefer Yetzirah and HaBahir.
So in short.... there are lots of books on Kabbalah :P
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14-09-2011, 04:18 PM
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Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 12,239
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Thanks Yamah and everyone else.
Okay, big question. What is the ultimate aim of Judaism?
__________________
The Humility, the Pride and the Humiliation.
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14-09-2011, 10:11 PM
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@Yamah: man, you know a LOT! That is so awesome
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15-09-2011, 04:05 AM
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hey, it's not like I've actually read all those books, lol...
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20-09-2011, 02:06 AM
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On Details
If you type out an email address and place one dot in the wrong place, the email doesn't get delivered to the intended recipient.
Sometimes a small detail can make a big difference.
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