Radical Non-duality (Meeting) Message

[Ewwerrin]

#1
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To be clear, what we're sharing or what the sharing is about, is a very uncommon message. It's very, it seems to be, very challenging, for people to even understand the concepts, but the concepts are really straight forward and easy to understand.

The reality we're talking about is not the concept. They don't help or hinder. The concept...
The most difficult part, I think, for most people to understand, conceptually, is that what we're sharing here, has nothing to do with you.

It doesn't recognize you at all...

It's actually saying, contrary to the appearant experience, you aren't... The experience "I am", is an illusion. The experience "I am", is an outcrop of a tension in the body. A tention in the body has an experiential knowing to it... Here...

As "here" arises, out of that arises "I am here".
Neither of those are true.
There is no "I am" and there is no real "here".
Now as the "I am" arises as "here", a part of that experience is "I am real".
And as soon as I arise as real, everything else, suddenly, becomes, experientially, real.

So there is an arising of "I am" and simultaneously, timelessly, that happens to everything else. Including what we would call space, or time.

That all then has the experience of being real. "I am here, everything else is out there, and everything that seems to be happening is happening to me."

The suggestion, is, that's a dream.

Not only is everything happening, not happening to you. Because there isn't anyone.
But it's not actually happening.
It appears to happen, seems to happen.
Like we could talk about how this "meeting" began, seems to be in the past. But its obviously demonstriably "This" appearing as that. You can't find a past.

Now, the experience of "I am" is dependent upon the past being real.

The reason it seems real, is because "I am" is dependent on the past being real, because it's dependent on this appearance going somewhere.
This appearance, "This", what's happening, isn't actually coming from anywhere. It isn't actually going anywhere.
But the sense of "I am" is on a journey.
"This" isn't enough for it. "This" is dissatisfying to it. So it's on a journey to satisfaction. It's on a journey to fulfillment. And that journey only has relevance if there's real time, in which I can find what I'm looking for.

So it's dependent on the past being real. It's dependent on this being a consequence of the past. So it has hope that this will be a cause of the future. And in the future it will find what it needs or wants. What it thinks it needs or wants.

The biggest problem for that experience, "I am", is, what its really looking for, and will never ever find, is the end of itself.
It's looking for absence.

It's actually looking for the spaciousness that is when it's not.
All there is, is spaciousness. All there is is the infinite. Everything that appears, everything that seems to be happening, including these words, is the infinite appearing as words, the infinite appearing as flowers, or body.
And it has no intrinsic need for anything to happen, for it to be what it is. This appearance is that fulfillment that the individual thinks it will find in the future. And as this is already it, it will never find it in the future.
As it has no reality, it will never find it now.
It can't find it now, because it is it.
There is no seperation to what it's looking for. The experience of seperation is a dream.

So that's basically... basically, the message. Basically the concepts which are out there. oooooOOOOOO OOOO!! OOO!
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[Unseeking Seeker]

What are you getting at, in simple words?

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

What are you getting at, in simple words?

Hahahaha! That is EXACTLY my reaction. Oh my God. I feel a lot less stupid now you have said it.

I am literally addicted, trying to understand this message. Somehow decode it. What it actually means.

My brain turns into a melting marshmellow when reading it.

If I had to guess, at first glance the message is saying that no one exists. And that there is nothing.
But the more I dive into it, the more I simply am completely confused. Befuddled. I dont even know how to describe it. It's like a computer that shortcircuits and suddenly shuts down and there is a moment of nothingness. I'm just blank.

I would love it if someone can make sense of it. Oh, please, be my guest. I'll share more. I'd love to conjecture about what is actually being said. What this actually means, if anything at all.

I feel like a kid trying to put together puzzle pieces. And I found one piece of the puzzle, "I don't exist" and now I am trying to find where this one connects to. And I'm just... I don't even know where to begin. Hahahahaha!

[Ewwerrin]

#2
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Q: Can I jump in?
A: Oh, absolutely.
Q: The first word that comes to my mind is: What(or why)(inaudible)?
A: Yeah.
Q: Like it's allot of people that think it's all a simulation. Video program or (inaudible)
A: Yeah
Q: (inaudible) just a mes(inaudible)
A: Yeah. The individual will always ask why. Because that gives it some sort of hope, that there is a way out. If it could find out why, it could find a way out.
But this isn't coming from anywhere. And it's not going anywhere. And it's not really happening. It has no need for why. There is no why.
This is so free, it doesn't need why. Why is a constraint, a constriction.
Q: But for us it's an obvious question. But you're saying it's an(inaudible)
A: Well the obviously, the obvious for the individual is "I am". That's why this message is so, that's why there is, I don't know how many people are here, that's why there is so few people here. Because it actually doesn't make sense, whats de whats being suggested here.
What's being suggested, what's being said, is that that experience, "I am", that may be happening there, (pointing at questioner) is illusory. It's not real. It's a dream that makes this all appear, as it's not. That's real.
As as, as an appearance of real, it is in some sense denatured. It's solid and knowable.
Seperation is death. The experience of this as real, is dead.
When there is no one left, what's obvious, is that this is aliveness. There is only aliveness.
The knowing of what this room is, covers over the aliveness that this room is.
It's known, so it's looked over. It's known, so it's passed by. And the individual always looks over what it's looking for. By asking why.
Cause really it's asking, "Why am I here, why am I, why is anything." Cause it's looking for meaning and purpose.
As soon as the individual arises, part and parcel of that experience, is a covering over everything, with the need of meaning and purpose.
And there is no need of meaning and purpose. There isn't a meaning or purpose, to what's happening.

Q: There seems to be a need for it.

A: Oh absolute well it's part and parcel of the experience of being "I am".
"I have meaning".
And the meaning and purpose is the story of "I am". And the story is, "How I'm going to find, what I feel I'm missing. How I'm going to find what seems to be missing in my experience of being a person."
So everything the individual, and that story is how personal judgement arises. "So my story is: This is the hope, this is what I'm going to find in the end. And how I get there is how I come up with my story of what's good and bad and right and wrong."
"So everyone that's doing what I think is gonna bring what I'm looking for, they're good. And everybody that's doing things that don't lead to what I think I'm looking for, are bad. Or wrong."
And when there is no one left, that di, that falls away. Cause there's no need for it anymore.

Q: If there is no one left, do the questions go, when the person is gone?

A: Absolutely! Questions, I mean, questions about how to get to elm street don't dissapear,
Q: Yeah
A: but questions about "what this is about" or "why is it the way it is." I, there's, there's no need.
It's already fulfilled. It's already complete.
It's not like the individual needs the end of a sentence, for things to be complete. Anything that arises: half a sentence, half a thought, half a world, a forgotten feeling, a forgotten thought. You know how you have that feeling "ooh I forgot something, it needs to be found."
Q: Yeah
A: Yeah, that's completeness, appearing as that. It has no need to find.

Q: Is it our conscious brain that keeps us trying to find it?
A: It's the experience of being an individual.
Q: Yeah
A: It's the experience "I am here."
Q: Cause our whole life is based on that.
A: Well... It's, it's, this isn't, this isn't saying that there shoulden't be an individual. And it's not suggesting that there is a real problem.
It's the experience of the individual, that they have a life. And that it's based on something.
But that experience is still the absolute appearing as that.
Q: Right.
A: It doesn't matter.
Q: It's all appearance.
A: It's all appearance.

Q: (inaudble) all only an energy field that is the background (inaudable) to use the term(inaudible).
A: Well, I woulden't say it quite like that.
All there is, is what appears. And what appears is, no-thing, thinging. Or energy thinging. Or emptiness thinging. Or spaciousness thinging.
Q: So the background ra..
A: There's no background.
Q: There's no background.
A: No...
Q: Is it somewhat silence?
A: No. Not at all. This, e, Exactly what's happening, is the absolute. It has no need for there to be any body that's not there. It has no need to be recognised or understood. It is that.
So that question, is the absolute, speaking.
Q: okay okay
A: And this is the absolute responding. That's all there is.
The misunderstanding, or the false, mmmm.... Claim, is that the individual will say: "I'm hearing. I'm speaking. I'm understanding."
Q: Right.
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[Miss Hepburn]

Can I ask...'What did I miss'?
Where did this message come from ...are you now a Chanel, Erwwinn!
If so, impressive!
PS I never know how to spell your name!

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Can I ask...'What did I miss'?
Where did this message come from ...are you now a Chanel, Erwwinn!
If so, impressive!
PS I never know how to spell your name!

No hahaha, it's not mine.
I share it here cause I wanted to understand this transcript archived under the title Radical Non-Duality (meeting) Message.

And I had exactly your initial response of it and also unseeker seeker his response. I was amazed, because it resonated on a very mysterious level, I can't explain. And yet I was like "WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY? CAN YOU MAKE SENSE PLEASE! How is that even possible?!"

So you also sense some thing in this message it seems. something of value, I'm not even sure if that is the right word. I thought I was going crazy trying to decode the message or understand it in any way possible.

I'll share if I can find more. But I can't make sense of these texts. I thought maybe someone else could haha. Its a lovely topic of conversation at least right?

Exactly like you say, these are fascinating. I'm a little obsessed by them. Keep trying to read it. Again and again. And for some reason, my mind goes blank. I just can't.... I cant even name what I cant even cant.... hehehehehe

Maybe this will go down in history as the most cryptic texts ever produced. Its like a fun puzzle trying to understand it.

[Ewwerrin]

You guys are lucky. I found two more. Yay. More to be confused about.

#3
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Q: (inaudible) you have to use the word individual and self and ego and all those, they have so much wrapped up in them.
A: Hmm.
Q: If you could just call it...
A: It's just words.
Q: Potential energy..
A: It's just words...
Q: Yeah.

Q: How would the me realise that there is no me.
A: It doesn't. Ofcourse.
Q: And without me, so what's left.
A: Everything.
*mild laughter*
Q: That's all?
A: Yeah heh.
Q: And is there an experiencer...
A: No, ofcourse not, no. It's the end of experience.
It's the end of the subject object experience.
...
Ther the there's a few, there's a few sort of mind games that I sort of, play. To sort of show how thinn the individual is. They're. They're not the actuality that I'm pointing to. They're actually completely just mind games. But when you're looking at me (pointing to questioner and self), you can't say where that happens. You can't say if the seeing happens here (point at own head) or here (moves hand forward) or there (moves hand further forward) or there.
You can't say. But that's just a mind game. And it's not the reality behind it. Because the reality behind it, is that, when there's nothing here (pointing at self) there's obviously just happening. It's not happening anywhere. There is only everywhere, or nowhere.
There's just happening.
Q: mmmh
A: There's only, this, happening.
Words happening. Movement happening. Has no solidity to it. Has no past, no future. It's just an appearance.

Q: And what restricts that?
A: The experience of being an individual.
The experience of the individual says "I am in here." (pointing at self) "I know I am. And I know that everything is out there. And I know that's happening to me." Including thoughts, or feelings, which are the most troubling for the individual. Thoughts and feelings. That's the reason it likes spiritual teachings, on detachment from thoughts and feelings.

Q: And what is ego?
A: I don't know. I, whatever you call it, I don't know, it's not a concept I use. It's not a word I use...
I mean you might tell me what you think it is and we could talk about it. I don't know.
Q: (inaudible) just the sense of "I am" (inaudible) trying to understand, how to deconstruct it.
A: Oh, well, you coulden't. Thee the, the experience of the individual, right now, in this moment, is a tension in the body. And that tension is looking for a better experience. And that exp, tha that tension, that better experience, is always coming. And never this.
So
Q: (laughter)
A: So that better experience is what wants to deconstruct the "I", for a better experience.
So even the want to deconstruct it, is the same mechanism, that covers over, this.
And so it just, it's just a circle. (circling finger in the air) That goes on and on and on. Of looking for the end of the circle. And looking for the end of the circle, is the circle. There is no circle. There is no person, there is no "I am"...
There appears to be, untill there isn't. And then, there never was. There never was.
When it stopped happening, it never happened. Cause the claim, the claim of the individual, the experience of the indi as "I am real" when it stops happening, what's obvious, is nothing is real. So "real" never happened.
So it's not happening. Altho, the experience is that it is.

Q: That there's a way(inaudible) suffering (inaudible)
A: This isn't, this isn't a suggestion that there is a way out of anything.
Q: Ok. So there is really no problem and nothing to do.
A: There's no problem and nothi, no one to do it.
Q: Ok (inaudible)
A: There's things that appearantly happen... But nobody does it.

Q: And when you realise that, do you uh
A: It's not a realisation.
Q: ok, well, when you, know it, or whatever.
A: It's not like that...
Q: oh, ok.
A: It's, the end of the individual is a non happening. It's not actually worth mentioning.
Q: ok
A: If I hadn't been asked to talk, I'd never talk about it... What would there be to say?
Q: Right.
A: How much sense does this meeting make. "You're not. Nothing is happening."
(burst of mutual laughter).
Q: hhhh!
A: thhhh haha!
Q: And no one is here!
A: And No One is here! Yeah. Alright! Let's have coffee, hehehe.
(laughter)

Q: But you woulden't be fearful
A: Fearful?
Q: About that, would you.
A: About what.
Q: About there being nothing, but, everything at the same time.
A: Who would be afraid of that?
Q: (inaudible) or the "I".
A: Yeah.
Q: Right, okay.
A: But it's not afraid of that. It's afraid of the enda, it's afraid of what it wants. It really wants the end of seeking. But it, but the problem for it, is it wants to know, it stopped seeking. It wants absence, but it wants to know that it's absent.
Q: And that is still seeking.
A: That's the same thing. It just keeps on going. (circling finger in air) It just keeps on going.
Q: It's like a circle.
A: It is a circle, because it's not going anywhere.
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[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I was amazed, because it resonated on a very mysterious level, I can't explain.

you also made a comment earlier about just shutting down when you initially read it....

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I think it is rare for someone to be able to make words, that take one away from the words themselves well enough to show something deeper. Maybe somehow the point is to show us even in a brief way, that there is something beyond all these words we spin around ourselves all the time? That maybe there is something to seek, beyond a description in words of that which we seek? The main problem for each of us though being we want to communicate with each other, and if we were to try to go beyond words we seem to lose that????

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

you also made a...
... if we were to try to go beyond words we seem to lose that????

Wow that's an amazing perspective on it. And yeah it feels like that is what is happening. So you did help me get closer to understanding it. Thank you for sharing that.

And also, yes, many times as I am trying to grasp on the message, and its ungraspable. It leaves me speechless.

You know. It reminds me allot of a person who was laughing and crying and laughing and crying, and it became completely indistinguishable. No one knew if he was crying or laughing. Its that moment where everything meets nothing. And I can't make any sense of it! And then I just shut down. It's like my mind goes blank and empty. I can't grasp it.
But as I read, there is something there that is like you say... Beyond words. Or we dont have a word for it. hehe. Well... Appearantly its about nonduality. But yeah, other than that. It's still just a word. I dont think the words are problem tho. It's just the ungraspability, like the biggest non event non happening that has ever not happened. hahaha.

Very interesting to try understanding it. But what you said does feel like it is very much what is happening in the message. It's like I can almost understand it and then nope... I cant. Very cryptic but in a fun challenging and engaging way.

Feel free to share more about it if you want. I like your perspective on it. I found two more, so this may help understand it. Or not understand it, if that is the purpose of the message. Haha, who knows.

[Ewwerrin]

Hope I got it in the right order.

#4
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Q: What led you the understanding of this.
A: Excuse me?
Q: What led you to the understanding of this.
A: So, thi, a, this, I don't understand this...
(people burst into laughter)
Q: Ok, but...
A: No one understands this. This, the understanding of this has nothing to do with the reality of it.
Q: Ok.
A: We're talking about the end of a contracted sense of "here" (clenches hands on chest), of to which everything is really happening, to that (opens hands and arms wide open).
Q: Yeah, ok.
A: That's not understanding.
Q: Alright.
A: The individual does this (moving claw hands towards eachother) with everything. Search searching searching.
It's got screwdrivers and hammers and things, and every thought and every appearance, it's, it's putting it all into it's system so that it's trying to stop having to put it all into its system.
It's not about understanding.
Q: Ok.
A: You don't, It sounds like this knows something (motions hand to self). It sounds like this is an authority. That's, total misunderstanding.
This doesn't know anything. And there is no authority. There is nothing to tell you. There's nothing for you here.

Q: But I have a, like uhm, uh, o, a, I try to to not to be, uh, "I".
A: Hehehe
Q: So I watch myself
A: But you're already not "I".
Q: Ok.
A: There's already no "I".
Q: Ok.
Q: So who is trying not to be it?
Q: A bit of my thinking, my habbit dehabbits, that's arise (inaudible)
A: Yeah. (makes circling motion with finger)
Q: I'm someone, so I watch it, I try since I listen, I watch it to say "Ah! I appear!"
A: Who would watch it? (Still circling finger).
Q: Eh, I don't know. The "I"?
A: Yeah.
Q: The "I".
A: The "I". (still circling finger in the air)
Q: Ok.
A: The "I" is looking for the end of I, (circling finger still) and wants to know the end of "I".
(Stops circling) The "I" want to know it's not.
Q: mhm, Yeah.
A: Good luck...
Q: Ok. Hehe.
A: It's hopeless.
Q: mhm
A: It's completely hopeless. For the "I" that's a horrible thing.
Q: yeah - mm
A: But... There is no need for hope. This is already everything.
Q: Wow
A: The I doesn't wanna die.
Q: No.
A: So it's searching for something to help it, to control, to maintain.
Q: Yeah.
A: It's already dead. You're already dead. It never happened. There's nothing that needs to survive... There is no need for anything else. This doesn't need to be fixed.
There's no need for the "I" to complete this, or to find anything... There's no need for the "I" not to be there.
Q: Ah... So sa that it very uh, concele is it concala? It's very, uh... Recomforting.
A: Ah.
Q: There's no need to be, to have the (inaudible)
A: Yeah... It sorta goes like this, doesn't it? (waving hand back and forth). Sometimes it's comforting, sometimes it sux. And then it's comforting and it sux.
Q: Ah yeah! Yes, That's true...
A: (nods)
Q: So de, the absolute manifest itself?
A: No.
Q: No.
A: No. The individual, because it's in a story of something happening, it can only understand what's being said here, as, as a story. As something really happening. The Absolute... (moving hands appart) Which Becomes, something else.
This isn a, there's no suggestion that there's an absolute, energy field, or anything, that Becomes something else.
The Absolute and the Relative are the same thing.
Q: Oh, okay.
A: It's not happening. It's not moving. It's not real.
When the "I" arises, everything appears to have some sort of solidity. When the "I", that solidity allows for the experience of consequential continium time. Cause and effect, cause and effect, cause and effect. Of which the individual, is merely an effect. An effect of an effect of an effect.
When the individual stops happening, nothing has that same solidity anymore. So cause and effect, have no cause and effect. Time isn't solid. It's just an appearance. Nothing depends upon what's happening. Absolute freedom is already everything. It doesn't need anything, to become that.
Q: but if the suffering. You said, there's a suffering?
A: Yeah. What's wrong with suffering?
Q: Oh, The "I" don't want it.
A: No. Well, the problem is that the "I" feels responsible for suffering. It takes responsibility for everything that happens. And so it wants to take responsibility or find a solution to it.
I'm not suggesting that if someone came up here to cut off my leg, that there woulden't be some sort of action to get away from that.
What I am suggesting, is that there's no one in here (pointing at self) that would do that. It would just be what happens. And that's already what this is... Happening. There's just happening.

Q: There's a tension in the body.
A: There is. There's a contraction in the body. Which is beyond recognition. You, if there's someone in there, will never know the "I am" tension, untill it falls away. It's in the ending of it... Because it's so intrinsic in the experience, that there's no distance to it. And when it falls away, it's a complete surprise. It's just not, it's just the last place you would have looked.
Q: I really feel the tension all the time.
A: But that's not, uh, you could say that that's a part of "I am", but that's not the completeness, because there is no where, there's no subject that could look at that tension as an object. Because that tension is the subject. Does that make sense?
Q: Yeah.
A: Yeah.
So it's much bigger than you think. The tension, that falls away. It's much more intense. It's much more through the entire body.
Q: mmh.
...
Q: So I missed that (inaudible) saying that the tension is not exclusive to the body.
A: Oh no, I am. It is the body.
Q: Ok
A: It's in the body. What I'm suggesting is that there's no way to objectify that tension to know it as "I am", to know the completeness of the tension that gives rise to "I am", untill the "I am" falls away.
In the falling away, that, how pervasive that tension is, becomes obvious. Was, becomes obvious.
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