Surrender: What does it mean to your spiritual journey?

[Ziusudra]

In my opinion,
the only difference between Spiritual enlightenment and Spiritual awareness is Surrender.

Without surrendering, the spiritual journey, no matter how intense, can not take the person to the enlightenment state where one can completely accept and trust its soul's journey... and believe our souls intentions are based on unconditional love. - although our human minds can not always understand their intentions..
We reach "As is" state where all matters are as should be.

Otherwise, all spiritual learning becomes just awareness, just another intellectual knowledge, just another tool.

So, I ask.
What does surrender mean to you?
Do you think spiritual enlightenment can still be possible without surrendering?

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Surrender

The concept of surrender
Appears to be self defeating
As is repression
As is control
As is effort
As is anything ...
In which there is a doer
A self serving doer
Doer implying ...
A separate self
And therefore limited
Ignorant
Misdirected
Whereas simply recognising ...
With humour
Abundant humour
And joy ...
Since there is no reason ...
To be serious
For we are not
As in
The self is not
And what we are
Is limitless consciousness
In momentary form
Seemingly confined
The narrow seemingness...
Being egoic delusion
Which we may choose
Here & now
To put aside
So we are carefree
In free flowing be-ness
Unseeking
Accepting
The unfolding
As it may occur
In timeless time
Then, as we were
As we are
In oneness
There is no self
As in a separate self
And so
Nothing to surrender

***

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

Surrender

The concept of surrender
Appears to be self defeating
As is repression
As is control
As is effort
As is anything ...
In which there is a doer
A self serving doer
Doer implying ...
A separate self
And therefore limited
Ignorant
Misdirected
Whereas simply recognising ...
With humour
Abundant humour
And joy ...
Since there is no reason ...
To be serious
For we are not
As in
The self is not
And what we are
Is limitless consciousness
In momentary form
Seemingly confined
The narrow seemingness...
Being egoic delusion
Which we may choose
Here & now
To put aside
So we are carefree
In free flowing be-ness
Unseeking
Accepting
The unfolding
As it may occur
In timeless time
Then, as we were
As we are
In oneness
There is no self
As in a separate self
And so
Nothing to surrender

***

Interesting verse.
Surrender
Perhaps the road to
Awareness of no self ?

[inavalan]

I don't like the idea of "surrendering". But, we all use the same words, with slightly different understanding of their meaning, sometimes with vastly different understanding.

So, I think that "surrendering" is counterproductive for "spiritual enlightenment". When surrendering is the result of belief, it is likely that we strayed far from the truth.

Spiritual enlightenment is becoming lucid while awake, similarly to becoming lucid while dreaming.

Side note: I like your calligraphy avatar.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I don't like the idea of "surrendering". But, we all use the same words, with slightly different understanding of their meaning, sometimes with vastly different understanding.

So, I think that "surrendering" is counterproductive for "spiritual enlightenment". When surrendering is the result of belief, it is likely that we strayed far from the truth.

Spiritual enlightenment is becoming lucid while awake, similarly to becoming lucid while dreaming.

Side note: I like your calligraphy avatar.

Hmm... Why is surrendering counterproductive?
Wouldn't just letting go all our attachments liberating?

BTW, my avatar is not calligraphy, it is Tango dance. But it can be a calligraphy if that is how you want to see it.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

Interesting verse.
Surrender
Perhaps the road to
Awareness of no self ?

***

Bullseye!

A shorter version for the reader who is weary

Surrendering is the unresisting allowing and so becoming one with Oneness awareness

Who offers resistance with persistence? Who else but the limiting, binding & confining illusionary i-dentity

***

[Ziusudra]

I also believe...
Spiritual enlightenment becomes life transition.
Where as Spiritual awareness is just life perspective.
So, for life transition to occur, absolute surrendering is necessary.
Surrendering all your beliefs of self, ego, and control.. I think....

(See here, I am not surrendering my physical self or all my physical comforts. , I do not intent to, no never. )

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

Hmm... Why is surrendering counterproductive?
Wouldn't just letting go all our attachments liberating?

BTW, my avatar is not calligraphy, it is Tango dance. But it can be a calligraphy if that is how you want to see it.

Have you ever had a lucid dream? At some point something you observe in the dream makes you wonder if, then realize that, you're dreaming, and you suddenly know who you are: the person who dreams the dream.

Enlightenment is similar.

Surrendering means you accept things as they are. You might feel liberated, but you're actually stuck.

Once enlightened you get a different perspective of your earthly being, and its earthly attachments, but this is different than trying to get enlightened by removing your attachment.

When you regress to life between lives by re-experiencing the end of a past life, it pretty much feels as you feel when you wake up directly form dreaming.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Have you ever had a lucid dream? At some point something you observe in the dream makes you wonder if, then realize that, you're dreaming, and you suddenly know who you are: the person who dreams the dream.

Enlightenment is similar.

Surrendering means you accept things as they are. You might feel liberated, but you're actually stuck.

Once enlightened you get a different perspective of your earthly being, and its earthly attachments, but this is different than trying to get enlightened by removing your attachment.

When you regress to life between lives by re-experiencing the end of a past life, it pretty much feels as you feel when you wake up directly form dreaming.

Very interesting view of surrender..
You have different version of surrender than mine, I think.

So, life as just a dream of our souls.
It is very true.

Actually, to me surrendering means - accepting that this dream of our souls is created with unconditional love. Therefore, all its creations are as is.

Acknowledging it, any human emotions and ego can be detached.
i.e., anger, disappointments, fear, hate and any negativeness can be turn to just peaceful harmony as these are unnecessary.

To me, I in lucid dream is another dimension of my reality. I in lucid dream is just another part of me that can not be expressed or live in my physical reality. Hence that particular aspect of me travels to lucid dream.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

Very interesting view of surrender..
You have different version of surrender than mine, I think.

So, life as just a dream of our souls.
It is very true.

Actually, to me surrendering means - [1] accepting that this dream of our souls is created with unconditional love. Therefore, all its creations are as is.

Acknowledging it, any human emotions and ego can be detached.
i.e., [2] anger, disappointments, fear, hate and any negativeness can be turn to just peaceful harmony as these are unnecessary.

To me, I in lucid dream is another dimension of my reality. I in lucid dream is just another part of me that can not be expressed or live in my physical reality. Hence that particular aspect of me travels to lucid dream.

Let me ask you: can you extend your [1] view to the way you perceive the you-in-your-dreams? Do you create your dreams with unconditional love?

Can you see your dreaming self's [2] negative emotions replaced by peaceful harmony because they are unnecessary? Obviously we don't like to have nightmares, but do you think that by surrendering to our nightmares we would get lucid, or at least achieve peaceful harmony?

These are examples of why I was writing about surrendering being counterproductive in pursuing enlightenment.