The 'no God' spirituality.

[jimrich]

[quote=Honza]This "I Am You" explaination is convenient but inherently troublesome.
So long as you believe that you are only a person, inhabiting a body you will never get it that all there is, is you - Universal Consciousness (to quote member awareness). There are many labels and names for you but it all comes down to you being all that there is or NO THING.

It implies that I do things that others are doing and that I will things that others are willing.
the 'I' in that sentence is the Absolute and there are no "others" - there's just you - playing all the parts in this cosmic play.

The truth is that 'out there in the world' many terrible things happen which I would prefer not to happen.

the truth is that you, Divinity, are manifesting everything that is happening in the world and the entire cosmos! If you don't want it to happen, it won't.

If all those things are me then they are truly happening without any intention or consent from me.

I have no idea why you, god, are manifesting all these "terrible" things but I assume that you, the Source, have your reasons.

And thus it has even come to me spitting in my own face and doing other nasty forms of self harm - which others have done to me - which you explain by saying I did them to myself.

that is absolutely true! You, the One or god manifest and ARE everything that is appearing in your cosmic play. What your purpose or plan for all of this is, is beyond my current ability to address.

I exist. I feel it. But it is difficult to explain, no?

I can't explain it! It's a mystery!!!!

Reality IS. I call it God.

You ARE GOD! You just forgot for now.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Patisa90

Hmmm interesting...interesting... maybe Im not too smart...so it means we are God and we can make our own wishes come true?

No, it does not mean we are God. What it means is that no God is necessary to exists. It may be a convenient consensus term to put some of our capabilities into a box, but it is an abstract concept and has no equivalent in reality.
There is nothing unusual in making our wishes come true. Most of us do this every day.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Honza

This "I Am You" explaination is convenient but inherently troublesome. It implies that I do things that others are doing and that I will things that others are willing.

Forget about "I Am you/that". It is the I that is misleading, in this case literally through identification with it, and philosophically because it does not exist.

"I am ..." is basically a faulty construction but imposed upon us through habit, culture and language construct which demands that a proper sentence must have a object and a subject.

Replace "I am ...(doing this)" with "There is ...(something happening)". That something does not require an actor, just as an avalanche or a landslide can happen on its own without anybody doing anything.
You are the observer of action, including what conventionally be called your own actions, but you do actually do them.

We don't do - we are being done, by the factors mentioned above, culture, society, habits.

This does not relieve us of responsibility in practical terms because that is is a concept we have included in our socio-cultural environment and we cannot transgress its boundaries in a major way without the risk of getting punished.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by markings

No, it does not mean we are God.

Please define or explain "god". Folks talk about "god" as though it is perfectly understood what "god" is so of course nobody could be this "god" and yet, why not? - depending on one's definition of "god"? I am god! Do you want my definition of 'god"?

What it means is that no God is necessary to exists.

Here's the same issue......what is your definition of this "god"?

It may be a convenient consensus term to put some of our capabilities into a box, but it is an abstract concept and has no equivalent in reality.

And it's even more abstract when there is no clear and UNIVERSAL definition of "god" or terms like "our capabilities". Who's capabilities?

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by markings

Forget about "I Am you/that". It is the I that is misleading, in this case literally through identification with it, and philosophically because it does not exist.

I don't know who or what you are speaking for or about but I certainly do exist! The question is, who or what is this 'I' that I am referring to? In my case, the 'I' that I am speaking of is a living presence or aliveness that I cannot describe or explain in conventional language. I am ineffable.

"I am ..." is basically a faulty construction but imposed upon us through habit, culture and language construct which demands that a proper sentence must have a object and a subject.

That is the great failing of English which some other cultures do not have. Our language simply does not acknowledge Nothing as Everything and Everything as Nothing. Our language can envision a god but only as a "something' amongst many other "somethings".

Replace "I am ...(doing this)" with "There is ...(something happening)". That something does not require an actor, just as an avalanche or a landslide can happen on its own without anybody doing anything.

IMO that is a very good example and gets around the subject object issue by allowing for things to just happen or just be - for no one.

You are the observer of action, including what conventionally be called your own actions, but you do [not] actually do them.

Because there is no separate, individual 'you' - there is only what is happening .If a 'doer" has to be named, it's Nothing appearing as Everything or Emptiness manifesting - and even that can't be said in our pathetically limited language.

We don't do - we are being done, by the factors mentioned above, culture, society, habits.

I'd say that there is only doing appearing as a 'we' or apparent objects apparently doing such and such. It's a mystery.

This does not relieve us of responsibility in practical terms because that is is a concept we have included in our socio-cultural environment and we cannot transgress its boundaries in a major way without the risk of getting punished.

There is no 'we' doing anything. It's all just happening. Responsibility happens. Practical terms just are. Concepts just appear. Boundaries just are. Risks just happen. Punishment just is or is not. Everything is just happening the way it is supposed to happen regardless of some person or ego who believes that they are doing such and such. The person or ego HATES this message because it seems to rob the individual of their personal, private life and egoic adventures. The entire thing and adventure is just happening, as it will, including the ego's fear, anger and resistance or joy and pleasure.
It's a mystery and a Paradox!

[Patisa90]

Originally Posted by markings

There is nothing unusual in making our wishes come true. Most of us do this every day.

Wishes coming true is something else then prayers accepted.. If I have for example..a lot of money problems.. and there is no way out of the situation and suddenly there comes a rescue after you pray to God..isnt that a prayer accepted by God?
I know people say this is 'a miracle' or 'a coincidence' but I think when you have this alot.. alot of signs n alot of prayers accepted this cannot be coincidence..

So how to explain this? If there is no God?

[sky]

Originally Posted by jimrich

I don't know who or what you are speaking for or about but I certainly do exist! The question is, who or what is this 'I' that I am referring to? In my case, the 'I' that I am speaking of is a living presence or aliveness that I cannot describe or explain in conventional language. I am ineffable.


That is the great failing of English which some other cultures do not have. Our language simply does not acknowledge Nothing as Everything and Everything as Nothing. Our language can envision a god but only as a "something' amongst many other "somethings".


IMO that is a very good example and gets around the subject object issue by allowing for things to just happen or just be - for no one.

Because there is no separate, individual 'you' - there is only what is happening .If a 'doer" has to be named, it's Nothing appearing as Everything or Emptiness manifesting - and even that can't be said in our pathetically limited language.

I'd say that there is only doing appearing as a 'we' or apparent objects apparently doing such and such. It's a mystery.


There is no 'we' doing anything. It's all just happening. Responsibility happens. Practical terms just are. Concepts just appear. Boundaries just are. Risks just happen. Punishment just is or is not. Everything is just happening the way it is supposed to happen regardless of some person or ego who believes that they are doing such and such. The person or ego HATES this message because it seems to rob the individual of their personal, private life and egoic adventures. The entire thing and adventure is just happening, as it will, including the ego's fear, anger and resistance or joy and pleasure.
It's a mystery and a Paradox!

Simple Jim ' Cause & Effect '.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Patisa90

Wishes coming true is something else then prayers accepted.. If I have for example..a lot of money problems.. and there is no way out of the situation and suddenly there comes a rescue after you pray to God..isnt that a prayer accepted by God?
I know people say this is 'a miracle' or 'a coincidence' but I think when you have this alot.. alot of signs n alot of prayers accepted this cannot be coincidence..

So how to explain this? If there is no God?

Everything that happens is just cause and effect, praying will not change a situation, it could help you feel better and more in control but will not change the outcome.

Just my little opinion

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Patisa90

Wishes coming true is something else then prayers accepted.. If I have for example..a lot of money problems.. and there is no way out of the situation and suddenly there comes a rescue after you pray to God..isnt that a prayer accepted by God?
I know people say this is 'a miracle' or 'a coincidence' but I think when you have this alot.. alot of signs n alot of prayers accepted this cannot be coincidence..

So how to explain this? If there is no God?

So the one and only explanation is "God"? That's as much as we can imagine? I can think of three other possible explanations just off the top of my head.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by jimrich

the truth is that you, Divinity, are manifesting everything that is happening in the world and the entire cosmos! If you don't want it to happen, it won't.

I have no idea why you, god, are manifesting all these "terrible" things but I assume that you, the Source, have your reasons.

If you think about it....it is a harsh thing to tell someone like the Native Americans or Jews who have been subject to genocide that in fact it is all their own will.

I really cannot help thinking that something terribly wrong has happened to cause such events. The West explains it by calling it the fall from grace. The East however says it is all our own will. It is a dilemma.