'And LEAD us NOT into temptation'

Mickiel came into my mind last night as I was praying the Lord's prayer. I know he interprets the bible differently , so when I got to this part of the prayer I stopped suddenly and found myself pondering on it before continuing. I pray this prayer several times a day and never have I stopped to ponder on one of the sentences like this before.

When I got to this part of the prayer, it hit me.... that it is possible that God does LEAD us into temptation.

The question is why?

I always thought it was Satan who lead us into temptation. I know he does.

But this part of the prayer clearly is talking about God and us asking him to not lead us into temptation.

So, what is your take on this?

Does this suggest that God is also responsible for testing us and leading us into temptation or are we simply asking him to lead us away from temptation when Satan himself is leading us towards it?

[JOHNTY]

Greetings Yumi14,

Well, it's the same thing in connecting with food on the table: "For what we are about to receive may the Lord make us truely thankful." I've never understood that. Why should God 'MAKE' us thankful.

In fact I don't believe God makes us do anything. When the Universe and Planet Earth was created the whole lot came with a perfect set of 3rd Dimensional laws which we have to learn how to stop breaking in order to be eternally happy at home with HIM-HER-JUNIOR or the THREE of them acting as One.

Originally Posted by yumi14

Mickiel came into my mind last night as I was praying the Lord's prayer. I know he interprets the bible differently , so when I got to this part of the prayer I stopped suddenly and found myself pondering on it before continuing. I pray this prayer several times a day and never have I stopped to ponder on one of the sentences like this before.

When I got to this part of the prayer, it hit me.... that it is possible that God does LEAD us into temptation.

The question is why?

I always thought it was Satan who lead us into temptation. I know he does.

But this part of the prayer clearly is talking about God and us asking him to not lead us into temptation.

So, what is your take on this?

Does this suggest that God is also responsible for testing us and leading us into temptation or are we simply asking him to lead us away from temptation when Satan himself is leading us towards it?

yumi14,

This is an excellent question....thanks for asking for responses. In attempting to understand the meaning of this it is helpful to remember the 3 temptations of Jesus in the wilderness. Satan encouraged Jesus to ask God to turn stones into bread so that Jesus might live.....a material temptation. Jesus responded by saying that man does not live by bread alone. He knew that God was defined by something higher than being a provider of material goods. Satan then encouraged Jesus to jump from the pinnacle of the temple and be saved by God's angels to demonstrate the power of God and to use God to save his life. Jesus replied that God is not to be tested....to give proof of Himself through the exercise of His power. Power was not to be the definition of God. Finally, Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world if Jesus would worship Satan. This was an appeal to the ego of Jesus. Jesus refused Satan and said that He would only worship and serve God.
These are the kind of temptations that the Lord's prayer is referring to. It is essentially saying: "God, do not allow us to misidentify You. Do not allow us to be awed by your power and do not tempt us into believing that Your power is what truly defines your being". These misguided perceptions of God make Him into something like a Santa Claus......the granter of privileges because of our goodness. We must remember always that we are saved by grace and not by works. It is too easy to develop a juvenile understanding of God and it is manifested when we pray for our football team to win. The underlying assumption is that somehow we have proven that we are the favored ones and that we will be rewarded for our goodness...our works. God is, in no way, tempting us to do evil things but we are being reminded not to misidentify God because of His power. It would be an easy mistake to make and to that extent God is responsible, for, indeed He is powerful and mighty. But He does not want us to be distracted by the glamour. As part of the Trinity, Christ portrayed the part of God that could wash feet and serve others.....not to rule with power over everyone. In short, the temptation is to judge a book by its cover....that is the temptation and is understandable. We are being reminded to open the book and consider the contents.
I hope this helps in some way to give you an understanding of this petition of the Lord's Prayer.

[Ninjajms]

I believe we are praying to be kept from temptation of sin(which comes from satan) and protection from attacks of satan

Thank you for the replies so far ��

I like how you said it Molearner, to not misidentify God. That makes a lot of sense ��

[Morpheus]

If the this is true, then, why are we asking Him in prayer not to lead us into temptation?

Explain.

[kkfern]

greetings

first of all, there is no Satan . satan simply means a challenge. challenges help us to grow or show us when we are on the wrong path. so god does give us challenges. just like any parent. we send them to school to learn it might be a challenge but that is how we grow.

kk

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Yes the difference is CRUCIAL - for ths is Christs prayer - remember He said do away with all other forms of ritual,this prayer IS a direct communion,use it and ONLY it He said - obviously then this prayr MUST be important,for before He gave it,He said do away with all others - obviously He intends then THIS prayer to be the essence of TRUTH..All of it,is a COMMUNION - an invocation of the Divine Presence,to be amongst us,guide us fully,right here,right now,to become the LIVING Presence..

It is essentially a prayer and a full surrendering of lower self TO this greater Presence we wish to invoke...The first parts,from the words "Our Father" - through to "give us this day" - this first part is ACKNOWLDGEMENT and FULL ACCEPTANCE of the Divine Presence,the actual surrendering of the lower self,foregoing the lower mind takes place here in the first few lines...

Thus we approach this communion fully open and totally willing to RECEIVE the Fathers Wil...Thus,we are to place NO CONDITIONS upon this communion our Self - no judgements,no limitations,no EXPECTATIONS - hence He said first and always,and indeed,right before He gave this prayer,He emphasised it again,go alone,shun the world out there,all the preconceptions,go away,seret silence of the deep mind,and invoke this presence there...NO PRECONCEPTIONS....

Hence the next part,from the words "give us this day" - are essentially BLANK requests,acknowldgement of surrender to the Divne Will,and acceptance,fully that we are IGNORANT of Self without this Pesence...Hence the words are give us a "daily bread",a GENERIC unstated,none specific request to give us WHATEVER we need,as we our lower self do NOT KNOW what we need....Next comes an issue of "fogive sins" and trespasses both past and present circumstances - again GENERIC,none specific,an acknowldgement that the lower self is in that state continously without this new Presence..

And so for the words "Lead us not into temptation" - similarly,a full admittance of lower self,the state of ingorance,stacked aganst the invoked Divine Presence and ITS guidance...LEAD us,for we are ignorant of self and continually surrounded by simialr ignorant people - this ignorance and the pull of the world out there,TEMPTS us into base ,undesired situations - hence,again htis invocation is a FULL SURRENDERING of the lower MIND,given over fully to the guidance of this invoked communion...


And really thats what Hes ALWAYS about - COMMUNION,always,here and now,continous Presence...BECOME me He said,and this prayer is the start of that endeavour - the scaffholding upon which the connection is first built,and though this first connection,truth will be revealed directly to you,follow the guidance without doubts,and all we ever need is apready provided before we even state it - NO SEPERATION..And of course,once the Presence is realised,you will indeed be LED quite literally moment to moment,for it is to become the LIVING Self,and so again,this prayer is always a statement of Divine acceptance,a complete and whole acceptance of Self AS the Divine Presence - essentially,it it is an invitiation to the Divne Christ and to eternal Self to become One in mind and spirit,for as He said - I and the Father ARE one - and this is the aim of the communion the prayer invokes and indeed the aim of His comlete teaching....

Originally Posted by Morpheus

If the this is true, then, why are we asking Him in prayer not to lead us into temptation?

Explain.

Morpheus,

I assume you are asking me? If so, it is basically this: Remember it is Jesus that is making this prayer. He knew that each of his temptations were genuine. He also knew that God could have easily done each thing that Satan suggested. Here is the main thing: We must remember that earlier in the Lord's prayer, Jesus said "thy will be done". If we ask God to change stones into bread, for example, we are then asking that OUR will be done. No part of the prayer can contradict any part of the prayer. We are to trust God completely. Also, I would refer anyone to Romans 8:26 which in part says......"for we do not know how to pray as we ought". This is fundamentally saying that we are too ignorant to pray correctly. Ignorance is always evidence of the presence of ego. It is very likely that our prayers can be a product of our ego which is automatic separation from God. I invite your comments.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Molearner; We do indeed seem to see the same htings here - even though we approach of course from vastly differing angles - still,we both glimspe the same aspects f truth it seems..Thats reassuring,as it affirms and validates the thng we see - I see it my way,and you yours,but the essential truth is the same..

" Also, I would refer anyone to Romans 8:26 which in part says......"for we do not know how to pray as we ought". This is fundamentally saying that we are too ignorant to pray correctly. Ignorance is always evidence of the presence of ego. It is very likely that our prayers can be a product of our ego which is automatic separation from God."

Id say that was the whole point why He told us repeatedly shun it all - for actually,it does lead us astray, - away fromthis inner endeavour that He will next explain - and so previously we didnt even know HOW to pray as said...He had to in effect,get us to absolutely FORGET all the old ways,and so right before He gave this prayer,HE explained it all quite fully - said the temple was for the EGOIC rewards of status and community prestige of mortal man - said the doctrines and dogma was uselsss,a direct hinderance - all the "babbling like pagans" HAD to stop as it was THIS element acting OUTSIDE of your Self,that stops you seeking the Divine Silence He spoke of,which is ONLY and firstly encounterd fully internally....

In all the clamour to understand scripture,we have basicaly forgotten His ELEMENTARY teaching - which IS this issue of INVOKING this Holy Spirit to come and INDWELL us..If we look honestly at His words,and keep in mind HIS persepctive of Self,who HE believed His Self to BE,THE FATHER,,the Light that is in all thngs He said,fully Divine in mortal form - keep that aspect in our minds,and read again any of His words,and a deeper,universal meaning becomes obvious...

Of course,UNTIL we realise this is within us,then we dont stand much of a chance of RECOGNISING it about our Self - its NOT found out in the world at all,so we wil mss it entirely looking there,especially if we are following fully and blindly after an authoity "out there" in the world,such as a religion or indeed any intermediary...And so it becmes obvious,why He repeatedly told us to ignore the temple,its rituals,its influences,the society,its status and heirachy,and basically ALL of the world out there - shun it He said for all those preconceptions are not the truth of Who you Are.not at all - only HERE He said,in this inner secret place,can that truth actually be shown....

He really did have a monumental task on His hands - to first do away with all lthe confusion before He could even begin to explain His truth - which is why He was blunt and straight to the point - telling the religous teachers of the day that they knew only a lesser diety,and had never encountered the authentic source of creation,but that this source did indeed,already reside withn us..He said in essence it was the external search - the temple,the dogma - that led us aay from the inner search - and thus they hindered us from out Divne truth and wer of no help at all.....He then proved al He said by doing dynamic,spur of the oment miracles,absolutely provng His teaching as authentic - and when the priests realised all this,they myrdered Him...

we didnt know how to pray - the rituals and temple services are uselsee - aimed to keep us trapped n a lower mind,aimed always at a lesser divinity - He said very clearly His truth ,His Father,was somethg new and unkown - not even Angels had encountered it - and so,He emphasises time and again,we MUST forget all thos epreconceptions,taught and based on th eold knowldgeof a lesser reality..NO preconceptions,as His Father,and Ours,is the SOURCE of it all...THIS prayer,is aimed directly,at uncovering that Source,WITHIN us,to make it present and known fully,here and now..If any of us actualy manage that He said,then we too would do all that He did,and much more besides He promised..Communion,always the metaphysical essential truth of His words - mortal mind to Divine mind communion..