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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #111  
Old 03-08-2021, 06:05 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHenson
Although, actually that isn't entirely the case because the definition of gods today includes many examples of people.
Little has changed in over six thousand years.

The real question is what are the reasons? What are the reasons we try to find truth in the scriptures or anywhere else? Or choose not to look any further?

Here's a good a place to start as any -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhpNRFFfJ8

Last edited by Greenslade : 03-08-2021 at 07:25 AM.
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  #112  
Old 15-08-2021, 12:13 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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How much did the Jews know about Gilgamesh?

When they were in captivity in Babylon, they surely were aware of the acount. I also suspect Genesis was finally compiled at and or after their captivity.

The Jews needed an identity.
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  #113  
Old 15-08-2021, 08:16 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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It's good to remember that the OT and its god and views and events reflect a group of people that indeed looked for an identity and much of it is probably political. Although one has to wonder whether much of it was really happening or just an excuse to generate pity. For instance, I don't believe in the exodus from Egypt and that it was all Jews that were ''slaves'' of pharaohs, or that ''Goliath'' was this evil big dude whereas ''David'' was poor little me, champion of the downtrodden. I rarely trust narratives that go like that. All three Abrahamic religions are more political than spiritual.
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  #114  
Old 06-09-2021, 12:43 PM
The Anointed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
It's good to remember that the OT and its god and views and events reflect a group of people that indeed looked for an identity and much of it is probably political. Although one has to wonder whether much of it was really happening or just an excuse to generate pity. For instance, I don't believe in the exodus from Egypt and that it was all Jews that were ''slaves'' of pharaohs, or that ''Goliath'' was this evil big dude whereas ''David'' was poor little me, champion of the downtrodden. I rarely trust narratives that go like that. All three Abrahamic religions are more political than spiritual.
Then you don't believe too much at all do you?
BTW, the Jews from the tribe of Judah, were not the only tribe in Egypt, the entire 13 tribes of Israel were there.
You might like to read the bible sometime, then perhaps you might know what you are talking about.
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  #115  
Old 08-09-2021, 05:12 AM
The Anointed
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[quote=BigJohn]How much did the Jews know about Gilgamesh?

When they were in captivity in Babylon, they surely were aware of the acount. I also suspect Genesis was finally compiled at and or after their captivity. /QUOTE]

The only copy of the Torah was housed in the temple of Solomon, (See 2 Chronicles 34: 14-19.) and those scrolls were destroyed when Nebuchadnezzar’s troops sacked and burned the temple in 587 B.C., after removing all that was valuable to them.

The Torah is believed to have been rewritten in Babylon by Ezra from the oral tradition that was handed down from generation to generation by the Jews.

You also asked how much the Jews might have known about Gilgamesh?

Although the flood story as handed down from Noah to his descendant Abraham, may have been a local event around Ireland and the coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, and as far inland to the Euphrates and beyond, it would have been recorded as an event which had flooded their entire known world.

The people of the pre-flood days would not have known that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, nor would they have known how many continents and islands there are on this earth. Their known world was limited to the civilised world of those days.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those which were chosen from the animals that had been forced to flee from the rising waters to the higher ground, upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animals would have only been those of his known world that was flooded around the year 2350 BC.

The Ark, which was a rectangular chest-like floating container built of Kopherwood, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, and Kopherwood is simply any wood that is coated with tar/bitumen. The Ark was subject to tides, currents and wind, having no means of propulsion or steerage, it was guided by the hand of the Lord.

Over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred 4,500 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.

Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition Genesis 7: 11-12; When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month all the outlets of the vast body of water beneath the earth burst open, all the floodgates of the sky were opened, and rain fell on the earth for forty days and nights.

Scientists have long suspected there was a lot of water beneath our feet, but this may be the first direct evidence that a vast reservoir of water is locked inside the mantle’s “transitional zone.” The significance: If just 1 percent of the “transitional zone” is made up of water, researchers say, it would triple the amount of water on the Earth’s surface.

Scientific researchers today, have absolutely no idea of just how much water is locked up in the transitional Zone, and yet they believe that if just 1 percent of the “transitional zone” is made up of water, it would triple the amount of water on the Earth’s surface.

This catastrophic flood occurred around the time of the eruption of Helka4, where the evidence shows that Ireland was inundated around that time, and is said to have remained desolate for 30 years.

Could waters be released from the transition zone by severe volcanic eruptions? We know that Volcanoes can change the weather, and that they can cause rain, thunder and lightning. They can also have long-term effects on the climate, making the world cooler, etc.

But? Have a nice day John.
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  #116  
Old 10-11-2021, 03:12 PM
ImthatIm
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Discussion about Yahweh and Elohim.
Please put in your own input into this discussion.
I ran across a piece yesterday that reminded me of you and your YHVH and Elohim dilemma.
I will see if I can find the article but I do have a piece of it on this site.
The two examples below where given to explain a circlular Light with no end and a beam of Light with a beginning and an end or at least two termination points believe.
But I thought about you when I read at the bottom Elokim and Havaye.
Might be nothing but yet it might be everything.LOL
Quote:
1.Kav (beam) of Creation..............^ 2. Circle of Creation
Memale Kol Almin ............................^ Sovev Kol Almin....
(The Light that fills the worlds)........^ (the Light that surrounds all worlds)
Or Primi (inner Light).......................^ Or Makkif (a transcendent Light)
Elokim (imminent name of God).......^ Havaye (transcendent name of God)
here is the article.
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...h/Tzimtzum.htm
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  #117  
Old 11-11-2021, 06:27 AM
The Anointed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
I also suspect Genesis was finally compiled at and or after their captivity.The Jews needed an identity.

King Josiah is believed to have ruled Judah from 640–609 BCE some 22 years before the temple of Solomon was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar’s troops in 587 B.C.

2 Kings 22; reveals that the book of the Law (Which included the book of Genesis) was discovered in the temple in the days of King Josiah, and would have still been in the Temple when it was sacked and burned 587 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar’s troops. The Torah was rewritten in Babylonia from the oral traditions handed down by the Jews from generation to generation.
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