The illusion if "I/me"

"Verify someones enlightenment" let alone through a picture or questions is absolutely ridicoulus.
I personally wouldn't give any more attention to this "path".
It is just marketing adressing the needs of the ego to get an enlightenment certification.
What does an enlightened face look like?
I guess it is "just an ebook" for a reason

Originally Posted by lemex

The idea of illusion interests me in relation of self. What is your feeling, does reincarnation support that I exists since it is about coming back. Are you saying the present I does not know it's real self so to speak. The illusion is what?

My understanding of self being an illusion is that we create this idea that our bodies, thoughts, ideas, beliefs etc: are a permanent, distinctive me but because every moment the illusion of me renews itself, nothing carries itself over from one moment to the next. Everything is in a constant state of flux, changing, becoming, dying, me is impermanent, therefore there is no me.
I don't believe in reincarnation but rebirth, I believe my energy will be carried forward and will take on another form, similar to a candle lighting another candle, the second flame is not the same as the first flame but would not exist without it, the flames are the same but they are not the same flame. Thats my understanding but I am sure others have other ideas which will be interesting to read.

[Emmalevine]

When I read the OP I thought about my years in therapy and the painful struggle to fully realize my-self - the transformation from a terrified, withdrawn young girl with no self-confidence to an emotionally sound, wiser and happier woman who trusts her place in the world.

Is this self transformation an illusion? In a sense yes it is, because the 'self' doesn't really exist beyond the thoughts and beliefs I had about my life and my self, but the journey I went on was real enough. The story brought me here. If it was all a dream, it was a dream that enabled me to awaken.

I very nearly went back into therapy recently but while chatting with someone, in the midst of trying to tell them my 'story', I wanted to laugh and cry at the same time. I realised it was 'just' a story and it was old. I was no longer attached to it. It mattered back then, naturally. I needed to live and breathe it. But I need it no longer. The lady I was speaking to attributed my apparent detachment as my being emotionally cut off but it wasn't that, well yes it was detachment, but in the sense I had grown and moved on.

So I completely understand the OP, the 'I' is an illusion, but the journey we go through is all too real in my eyes. It's just that we reach a point where we go 'home' and shed the metaphoric skin. Some people reach this point at death, others way before.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by celest

My understanding of self being an illusion is that we create this idea that our bodies, thoughts, ideas, beliefs etc: are a permanent, distinctive me but because every moment the illusion of me renews itself, nothing carries itself over from one moment to the next. Everything is in a constant state of flux, changing, becoming, dying, me is impermanent, therefore there is no me.
I don't believe in reincarnation but rebirth, I believe my energy will be carried forward and will take on another form, similar to a candle lighting another candle, the second flame is not the same as the first flame but would not exist without it, the flames are the same but they are not the same flame. Thats my understanding but I am sure others have other ideas which will be interesting to read.

Closer to what I'm thinking. Are we unique energy and is it the spirit that awakens not the physical. I understand the physical rests in memory and is that we think of I. The reboot of life seems relevant something I know I'm looking forward to and needed. Does the self exist, that which is reborn, not the flame but that which lights the flame.

Originally Posted by lemex

Closer to what I'm thinking. Are we unique energy and is it the spirit that awakens not the physical. I understand the physical rests in memory and is that we think of I. The reboot of life seems relevant something I know I'm looking forward to and needed. Does the self exist, that which is reborn, not the flame but that which lights the flame.

Lemex have a look at the 5 Skandhas you will find them interesting.
That which is reborn is not the self, there is no self/me/I. Its our consciousness which is not the soul/self that takes another form, like the candle flames, it is similar but not the same consciousness, but one cannot exist without the other. I believe we are unique physical energy but spiritually we come from the same source.

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by luntrusreality

This is not what is talked about most of the time.
"losing oneself" or "becoming a walking zombie" is not the same as
"no-self".

There doesn't even necessarily have to be any kind of change to the conditioning of the mind or body.

What you are describing here is conditioning of the mind, the experience is still in "there is somebody and here is somebody and both are real" "I am in here without a sense of "self" of course not in these words but just as a story to describe what the experience could be like.

Being a more down to earth Native, I take the loss of self to imply brainwashing by a cult. Seems what I am reading here to be the same thing but more subtle. But then, I do not think in the way that I see written here.

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

Being a more down to earth Native, I take the loss of self to imply brainwashing by a cult. Seems what I am reading here to be the same thing but more subtle. But then, I do not think in the way that I see written here.

I can understand what you mean Thunder Bow but my idea of no self is different from the others, my understanding is that the self is not what we think it is because everything changes from one moment to the next, nothing is permanent so what we think of and name self, is not true., its an illusion.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

Being a more down to earth Native, I take the loss of self to imply brainwashing by a cult. Seems what I am reading here to be the same thing but more subtle. But then, I do not think in the way that I see written here.

I too have come to peace with my head in the clouds while my feet are on the ground. It's so relevant to the experience.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by celest

I can understand what you mean Thunder Bow but my idea of no self is different from the others, my understanding is that the self is not what we think it is because everything changes from one moment to the next, nothing is permanent so what we think of and name self, is not true., its an illusion.

There is an I that is always changing. It's source is common but as much as I am you, I am not you in regards to the experience.
I never understood why folks use the word illusion. It just doesn't fit IMO.

I did explore the I too, with help and insights from a website called Liberation Unleashed, it is free, and there is a free ebook too. There is a logic explanation, but to get the realisation it needs some will, or perseverance, but at the other hand it is beyond thinking, just a sort of accepting.
I had different kinds of realisations, sudden?, and maybe it is gradually... The Buddha said: When you see the Buddha, kill him.
The realisation cannot really be explained because there is always the paradox of different layers of thinking :-).
When I say I am enlightened, I am not.
When we see the light in the eyes of someone else, it is our own light, but when we think it is our own light, it is not.
We are all enlightened, but cannot see it because of this mind... (just some statements :-), still trying to give words to all these paradox fenomena)