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[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Nope.




No one follows the adepts.

Yes,

Okay :)

I explained why an adept follows the rules already.

Authority yes I know.. we were not talking about that.. But it's not about authority.

I already explained how the precepts are a banal aspect of the more nuanced aspect of the 8 path and related the 8 path to sila, meditation, wisdom.

ba·nal
/bəˈnäl,bəˈnal/

adjective:

so lacking in originality as to be obvious and boring.

You say it is boring and lacking yet the teachings say it is the cornerstone upon which the entire Noble Eightfold Path is built.

hmmm

Sure, you can imagine what it's like (but don't pretend to know)

Am I wrong?

Sure. You put attention somewhere on the body and you'll feel something there

.

So it's always on the external body?

I choose not to say.

Why not? You claim knowledge, learning, training, authority yet won't say where you received it.

Unusually to say the least.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Yes,

Okay :)




Authority yes I know.. we were not talking about that.. But it's not about authority.



ba·nal
/bəˈnäl,bəˈnal/

adjective:

so lacking in originality as to be obvious and boring.

You say it is boring and lacking yet the teachings say it is the cornerstone upon which the entire Noble Eightfold Path is built.

hmmm

Indeed, the obedience level of precepts is the banal level and the 8 path is a more nuanced aspect, which is precisely what I explained in previous posts.

.

So it's always on the external body?

I'm not sure what that is, but I'm taking that to mean the skin, and of course you can feel deeper than the skin right through the body.

Why not? You claim knowledge, learning, training, authority yet won't say where you received it.

Unusually to say the least.

That's OK. I just choose not to say. I also have reasons of my own, but choose not to explain it.


I claim that I have no authority at all. True that I trained fairly extensively which included learning the philosophy, but that's mere a fact. I'm very ordinary, no-one special, and am not the topic of discussion. The only relevance is being consciously aware of when we fabricate self-images and self-narratives in regards me I my mine; as well as you, yours and you're.

Here's one from the archives...


"I always wanted to be a guru.

What I really mean is, that I just wanted my voice to be heard, accepted, listened to considerately, as if it mattered, was important to somebody, helpful to others. In a way, that is everyone's ideal, isn't it? But when that doesn't happen, 'guru' then becomes the derogatory term for the person who has apparently somehow prevented us from becoming a 'guru' ourselves."

- Jyotir -

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Gem

My motivation is mainly because I have time to fill since lock down and this is the sort of thing I like to do. Apart from that, because it requires my self-awareness to talk about it, and you can only understand it through your own self awareness, I think it's beneficial for me to to go through it and could be beneficial for others to as well. Then there's some slight vanity with the typical 'like' and 'comment' obsession of the internet. There is also a little bit of titillation over the argument drama, but I'm resisting that temptation (albeit irresistible) .

Would you like to see yourself as a Buddhist teacher?
Would you like to see this Buddhist forum turning into a proper Sangha, you at its helm?
Or do you see yourself as a qualified enough Buddhist teacher already, so are you seeking disciples, followers to help?
Do you wish others, in good-will enable you into this role, which is not a fantasy?
If people do not wish to enable – would you see that as their ill-will towards you?

Originally Posted by Gem

At this stage I said all I can say about the levels of nuance from obeying rules or commandments to the mre nuanced aspects of understanding and how virtue is really a dynamic between sila, self-awareness and wisdom. Not much more I can about that on the theoretical level, so I'd like to go forward and explain it on a more nuanced practical level, but I have to wait until things settle down seeing the conversation is argumentitive at the mo, as you'd need an observational mind to grok.

The attention drifted off and was fantasizing about the symbolic male/female and imaginary shamans and so forth and if that is true or untrue according to self awareness, then you really understand this subject.

Buddhists teach about the actual union of the male and female energies (red/female and white/male drops)…. You can always read about it …

If one comes from shamanic ancestry and heritage – of course some of us are aware of its reality in reality …

*
https://www.economist.com/img/b/1280..._bkp003_nc.jpg

[Phaelyn]

The idea of a "spiritual" teacher is kind of a weird one. What is spiritual? Being nice to all we encounter? Thinking always of helping others before ourselves? Seeking or having great metaphysical experiences and visions?

Before one can get in the "spiritual teacher" business one has to decide what "spiritual" is and more often than not, the definition or concepts the "spiritual teacher" adheres to are not "spiritual" at all.

The "spiritual teacher" and "follower" game is usually a very self-centered teacher and very self centered followers. The teacher claims to have arrived somewhere and the students are seeking whatever they are imagining the teacher has. So seeking, vanity, pride, self importance, judging others, ego is all wrapped up in this activity.

There is an old story of a group of monks at a monastery being told a hermit mystic announced he had a vision of a great enlightened being who lived at the monastery and he was coming there for a blessing. The monks all got excited wondering if they were the great being. The mystic got there and the monks pushed each other out of the way so the mystic could see them and bow before them. The head monk assumed he was the one and stepped in front of the mystic. The mystic moved around them and walked straight to the monastery kitchen and prostrated before the old cleaning woman doing the dishes. She smiled at him and patted him on the head and went back to her chores.

How is humility to be taught and by who? To only love and not judge? A humble non-judgmental person is unlikely to have much interest in being a teacher of some kind.

These ideas are not divorced from Buddhism, they are there if one looks for them, but other ideas are there as well and we pick and choose the ones that match the way we are. If we are into feeling advanced, better than others, we pick teachings and teachers that support that and ignore the rest.

Karaniya Metta Sutta - Buddha

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down

By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sentient

Would you like to see yourself as a Buddhist teacher?
Would you like to see this Buddhist forum turning into a proper Sangha, you at its helm?
Or do you see yourself as a qualified enough Buddhist teacher already, so are you seeking disciples, followers to help?

To me it's just a forum to explain the things and discuss.

Do you wish others, in good-will enable you into this role, which is not a fantasy?
If people do not wish to enable – would you see that as their ill-will towards you?

If people want to learn things related to this topic they will have to be self-aware, and I'm not sure when I became the topic here, but I can say that is a distraction.

Buddhists teach about the actual union of the male and female energies (red/female and white/male drops)…. You can always read about it …

I'm not interested in these things.

If one comes from shamanic ancestry and heritage – of course some of us are aware of its reality in reality …

*
https://www.economist.com/img/b/1280..._bkp003_nc.jpg

It's a symbolic reference some sect(s) might use. I don't know anything about that and it is not interesting to me. I don't want to entertain particular sectarian symbology and prefer to talk about universals. Nice picture BTW. I like that.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

The idea of a "spiritual" teacher is kind of a weird one. What is spiritual? Being nice to all we encounter? Thinking always of helping others before ourselves? Seeking or having great metaphysical experiences and visions?

Before one can get in the "spiritual teacher" business one has to decide what "spiritual" is and more often than not, the definition or concepts the "spiritual teacher" adheres to are not "spiritual" at all.

The "spiritual teacher" and "follower" game is usually a very self-centered teacher and very self centered followers. The teacher claims to have arrived somewhere and the students are seeking whatever they are imagining the teacher has. So seeking, vanity, pride, self importance, judging others, ego is all wrapped up in this activity.

Nicely put. I have had teachers, and I suppose I still do, so I get it, but I don't bow in any sense. Other people say special words, clasp hands, prostrate across the floor and so forth, but it's just a sort of etiquette and never once did a teacher ask me to do such things. It makes no difference if you do that or not. Do it if you want or otherwise not. I regard teachers the same as novices and peers as people just like me, and they appreciate me not judging them as special and comparitively no-so-special. I don't imagine you. I don't imagine me. If I do fabricate such self images, I know it is fabrication and not actual in real lived experience. I was taught well, but I never had 'someone special' fabricated from my own judgments as a reflection of how I judge myself.

There is an old story of a group of monks at a monastery being told a hermit mystic announced he had a vision of a great enlightened being who lived at the monastery and he was coming there for a blessing. The monks all got excited wondering if they were the great being. The mystic got there and the monks pushed each other out of the way so the mystic could see them and bow before them. The head monk assumed he was the one and stepped in front of the mystic. The mystic moved around them and walked straight to the monastery kitchen and prostrated before the old cleaning woman doing the dishes. She smiled at him and patted him on the head and went back to her chores.

How is humility to be taught and by who? To only love and not judge? A humble non-judgmental person is unlikely to have much interest in being a teacher of some kind.

These ideas are not divorced from Buddhism, they are there if one looks for them, but other ideas are there as well and we pick and choose the ones that match the way we are. If we are into feeling advanced, better than others, we pick teachings and teachers that support that and ignore the rest.

Karaniya Metta Sutta - Buddha

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down

By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

The idea of a "spiritual" teacher is kind of a weird one. What is spiritual? Being nice to all we encounter? Thinking always of helping others before ourselves? Seeking or having great metaphysical experiences and visions?

Before one can get in the "spiritual teacher" business one has to decide what "spiritual" is and more often than not, the definition or concepts the "spiritual teacher" adheres to are not "spiritual" at all.

The "spiritual teacher" and "follower" game is usually a very self-centered teacher and very self centered followers. The teacher claims to have arrived somewhere and the students are seeking whatever they are imagining the teacher has. So seeking, vanity, pride, self importance, judging others, ego is all wrapped up in this activity.

There is an old story of a group of monks at a monastery being told a hermit mystic announced he had a vision of a great enlightened being who lived at the monastery and he was coming there for a blessing. The monks all got excited wondering if they were the great being. The mystic got there and the monks pushed each other out of the way so the mystic could see them and bow before them. The head monk assumed he was the one and stepped in front of the mystic. The mystic moved around them and walked straight to the monastery kitchen and prostrated before the old cleaning woman doing the dishes. She smiled at him and patted him on the head and went back to her chores.

How is humility to be taught and by who? To only love and not judge? A humble non-judgmental person is unlikely to have much interest in being a teacher of some kind.

These ideas are not divorced from Buddhism, they are there if one looks for them, but other ideas are there as well and we pick and choose the ones that match the way we are. If we are into feeling advanced, better than others, we pick teachings and teachers that support that and ignore the rest.

Karaniya Metta Sutta - Buddha

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down

By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

' The idea of a "spiritual" teacher is kind of a weird one.'


Buddha was a Spiritual Teacher.

[sky]

Originally Posted by sentient

Would you like to see yourself as a Buddhist teacher?
Would you like to see this Buddhist forum turning into a proper Sangha, you at its helm?
Or do you see yourself as a qualified enough Buddhist teacher already, so are you seeking disciples, followers to help?
Do you wish others, in good-will enable you into this role, which is not a fantasy?
If people do not wish to enable – would you see that as their ill-will towards you?


Buddhists teach about the actual union of the male and female energies (red/female and white/male drops)…. You can always read about it …

If one comes from shamanic ancestry and heritage – of course some of us are aware of its reality in reality …

*
https://www.economist.com/img/b/1280..._bkp003_nc.jpg

Lovely Picture, where was it taken ?

[sentient]

Originally Posted by sky123

Lovely Picture, where was it taken ?

Solovki, White Sea, Russia
Hey, that is where I genetically come from (just below Belomorsk) being mostly Viena Karelian, Saami & Siberian mongrel.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...te_Sea_map.png

An old story about the Karelian and Saami shamen getting themselves into a duel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f9dg3gwIqM

Sorry off topic.

*